File talk:Interview Aaron Saxton part 3 of 7.ogv

 

Transcript

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Aaron: - one tyrannical man. Yes, David Miscavige is tyrannical - but I was just the same, I was one of those. There's no difference between DM and myself, there wasn't. I would have done everything he did, and I did.

Carmel: And others as well, were the same.

Aaron: And others, they were all created. But where did that creation come from, what makes it ok? Ok? I'll tell you what does. What you see, what the public out there see is... I mean, Scientology's policies are criticised. We'll get together these books, we'll get together these volumes of policy letters and we'll show the world these are your policies. I'm, but guess what? We won't show you what the Sea Organisation runs off: our own separate set of orders from Ron. Our own Flag orders, numbering in the thousands. We have Office of Special Affairs Special Orders. We have special training material for Messengers, special orders only for Messengers. And within the Sea Org, most of the Flag orders are not even known to the very Sea Org members, but they are to management; and then within management, even a smaller group are privy to the other policy letters. These policy letters dictate these actions that they are okay: altercations between staff members ARE acceptable. This is Ron's words.

Carmel: You mean physical altercations?

Aaron: That's correct. These words are not heard but, or known by public Scientologists. These are his words saying you can beach a human being, and throw them overboard. This is Ron Hubbard words saying you MAY put a person in the Rehabilitation Project Force and bar all communication with other human beings? That you can be punished for communication, I mean ANY communication, unless prompted and, and instructed to speak.

Carmel: Yep.

Aaron: These are policies that say the purpose of the Sea Org has NOTHING to do with Scientology. This is about putting Ethics in on the planet. And it's about control. These, these policies instruct and guide you on how to take care of an enemy network or group of people that are attacking the Sea Org of Scientology. These are, they are not the same policy letters you see, or a public Scientologist and what you call the "Potential Trouble Source Suppressive Person Rundown Course". These are far more aggressive than anything you've ever imagined. And THAT'S the machine. David Miscavige is just enforcing the policies and following them as a zealot.

Carmel: Yep.

Aaron: He's not making this stuff up - these policies really exist, to do this, to act in that way, to use aggression.

Carmel: So how many others would know about these policies, or these, you know..

Aaron: A number. We mi- I'll give you an example: I was surprised to hear Marty Rathbun's departure from the Church.

Carmel: Right.

Aaron: I met Marty Rathbun several times. And was involved with him at the Flag Land Base up in Los Angeles, and I also met him on the ship. And what amazed me is that people like Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder aren't talking about anything. They don't even see what the real crime's here. They're talking about David Miscavige giving him a slap. I'm sorry, but this happened, this happened throughout the Sea Organisation: Foster Tompkins used to beat staff, DM used to do it. You, they're not the first people to hit another human being.

Carmel: Yep.

Aaron: What, what's shocked me though, Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, were involved in having staff members being fed beans and rice for weeks at a time at the Flag Land Base and in the Home Guarantee Building. Denying children nutritional supplements. Mike Rinder in specific allowing young men and boy, and men and woman, to be hired, and how did we fix the 'educational requirements'? We pay the Scientologists out in Los Angeles to give them a 'certificate' that said they had approved educational standards. Yet Mike Rinder and Marty aren't even looking at these things as crimes. They're not looking at the fact that we didn't even provide medical uh provisions for staff. We didn't have women get Pap smear tests to check for cervical cancer. To check their eyesight. The answer to everything is "We'll audit you", but you don't GET auditing. And there's Marty Rathbun and Mike Rinder talking about "I got slapped by David Miscavige" and that's their big crime for 20 years. I'm sorry, that's not the crime. And why aren't they talking about it? Maybe they don't even think that what they did was a crime. The only reason they're talking about David Miscavige slapping is because they felt physical pain. To them that's a crime. And labelling David Miscavige as the cause of all this: untrue. Marty Rathbun himself has reamed out staff. Marty Rathbun himself has been tyrannical. Mark Heimber has been tyrannical. Mark Jaeger, a tall, imposing figure and often the head of the Commodore's Messenger Organisation, a very imposing individual who has walked around the organisations going "Sec check him!" "You're off post!" "You do this!" "You're going on mission!" "You're out ethics!" They're not even talking about these incidents. David Miscavige had nothing to do with those. And that's how Mark Jaeger liked to run his Messenger Organisation, that filtered down through management. I was running around the Hollywood Guarantee Building: "You're out ethics!" Sorry, we've got a policy in the Church that says I can RPF one person at a Flag bureau every week. I don't need justification, I just need to keep you on your toes. Who's it gonna be this week? Better not be the down-statistic guy, you could be next. Watch it. Then (sharp breath intake) fear is the dominating factor. Fear gives compliance.

Carmel: Yep.

Aaron: Willingness doesn't. LRH talks about using affinity to obtain compliance... only for a public Scientologist! Look into the policy letters and it's rife, the Sea Org's policy letters are rife with aggression, and command, and discipline for even misaddressing a senior officer. And sometimes in the mind of a person probably viewing this video, it would be hard to reconcile the two different human beings I'm talking about: L. Ron Hubbard the founder, L. Ron Hubbard the dictator and Commodore of the Sea Organisation. But the two people are the same. And people may be listening to this, who have been in the Sea Org, know this is true and thought that it was the exception that they were treated like that.

Carmel: Yep.

Aaron: It's not the exception, it's the rule. And the higher you go up, the worse it gets. The problem is, you can't disagree.

Carmel: Yep.

Aaron: Because if you disagree, even mentally, you'll get a security check and one of the question will be: "Have you thought?" So now it becomes wrong to even have a thought. So if you can't do, you can't think, you can't compute now. So now you have to turn off that part of your mind that even thinks. Because you can't afford to think: is it right or wrong what my senior just did?

Carmel: Yep. So tell me, when uhm, uhm, when these Sea Org people say the HGB building, you know, whatever, they were getting the beans and rice and weren't getting medical attention and things, what was the scene for the guys in the upper management? Guys like Mark Jaeger, Guillame Laseve, Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder? What, what was the scene for them?

Aaron: Lavish! Uhm, I'll give you an example.

Carmel: Lavish?

Aaron: Lavish. Spending.

Carmel: Yeah?

Aaron: For them, uh, I'll give you an example. About three times a year David Miscavige, Marty Rathbun included, uh... Guillame Laseve, the Executive Director International, various members of the Watchdog Committee, would all come down to Florida. We had for them special apartments built at the Hasienda Gardens that were just gorgeous! Spanish marble, layered throughout, luxurious kitchens, gymnasiums for them with the latest equipment. We, I, I arranged a purchase of one piece of gym equipment at a cost of almost ten thousand US dollars. And you know what they did with it? Ronny Miscavige got up on it and did his little trick of hanging by his toes. This is David Miscavige's brother.

Carmel: Yep.

Aaron: That's how amusing the instrument was to him. It was a toy. And then we would take cash funds and we would allocate vast amounts of money to the grand, uh, pontiac grand amp (?) so they could drive around in luxury, I'd arrange drivers if they wanted drivers to drive them around while everyone walked or got on a packed bus. Uh, their diets were special. They had special nutritional requirements so we would buy wheatgrass and wheatgrass juices and fine coffees from France coffee houses and crackers from Switzerland. You know, you'd have to make this shit up almost to believe it. And, but this, this was their budget. And then we would take that huge amount of cash and it would be exhausted, and then we would justify the expense through falsification of some kind of a record or receipt that we could get from a public Scientologist or something, and that was declared the usage of the moneys.

Carmel: Right.

Aaron: But we're talking thousands of dollars here. The average Sea Org member got less paid to him in one year than what one executive would have just spent on his luxuries in a week. And this is how they lived. Uh, I got a ten dollar Sea Org shirt. Marty Rathbun, David Miscavige -