File talk:Карта боевых действий на Востоке Украины.svg/Archive 1

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Blue color

Is there a reason we switched to the blue color? Because it's nearly indistinguishable from the color of the sea. This was a bad choice. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 03:02, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

What color do you would be better than blue? -- ZomBear 15:20, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
The current ones are better. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 23:18, 16 July 2014 (UTC)

City names

Why city names were removed? It was much better with them. --Vasylysk (talk) 10:56, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

OK. Well in the next update will return. -- ZomBear 15:20, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
Thank you. Your map rocks! --Vasylysk (talk) 20:25, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Roman script

How about a roman script version of the map for the English version? — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 79.145.220.69 (talk) 05:46, July 19, 2014‎ (UTC)

I agree this would be useful. If ZomBear could upload this in SVG version, we could create one easily. Or he could create one himself. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 22:42, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Situation on 19 July

Here the pro government map showed the situation in Ukraine on 19 July.Live UA map Hanibal911 (talk) 16:16, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

@Hanibal911: So how does that mean you should be reverting to the image from July 17??? Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 22:41, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
I just fixed a scandalous changes in the map. enough panic -- ZomBear 6:02 AM, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Situation on 20 July

You can correct the error on the map because the Lugansk Airport still completely surrounded by terrorists and the military can not get through there.UNIAN Hanibal911 (talk) 11:15, 20 July 2014 (UTC)

Update 21 July:
1) Rubizhne released UA Army. On city hall raised the Ukrainian flag.
2) Popasna, Lisichansk and Severodonetsk - almost surrounded UA Army. Terrorists cut off from the central road connecting them together.
3) Slovyanoserbsk is not controlled by terrorists, long time.
4) UA Army reached the outskirts Gorlivka displaces terrorists from Dzerzhinsk.
5) Dmytro Yarosh said on FB, that their battalion to fight entered the western outskirts of Donetsk and strengthened their positions. -- ZomBear 12:51 PM, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Границы районов

Добавьте границы районов и отмеьте райцентры подчеркиванием.--Kaiyr (talk) 12:11, 21 July 2014 (UTC)

Это не существенно важно. Границы районов я точно делать не буду. Карта и так забита всяческими названиями, скоро и территории видно не будет. -- ZomBear 12:51 PM, 21 July 2014 (UTC)
The map is quite good as is. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 02:35, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Амвросиевка

Амвросиевка под контролем украинских сил. Почему обозначена как часть ДНР? GAU-19 (talk) 00:13, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Do you have a source for that? Also, events are moving very fast on the ground. And we only have one person who is able to edit this map competently. I'm sure he will update it ASAP. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 02:37, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Yes. [1], [2]. «Котыч» — account of Strelkov. GAU-19 (talk) 04:29, 24 July 2014 (UTC)
Да, уже освобождена украинской армией. -- ZomBear 5:32 PM, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

"Малогвардейск"

Должно быть "Молодогвардейск". Oleksiy.golubov (talk) 22:44, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Исправил. -- ZomBear 5:32 PM, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

КПП "Мариновка"

Ополченцы ДНР захватили КПП "Мариновка". http://ria.ru/world/20140726/1017609367.html Vasily.pantiushenko (talk) 18:50, 26 July 2014 (UTC)

На карте это показано. -- ZomBear 5:32 PM, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Стиль текста

Исправьте, пожалуйста, текст примечания:
"Эта карта нарисована и обновляется по ссылке на официальную карту Совета" и т. д. --Максим Пе (talk) 12:56, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Спасибо, исправил ошибку. -- ZomBear 5:32 PM, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

города в которых бои

Почему некоторые такие города в цвете ДНР, а некоторые окружены цветом Украины?--Kaiyr (talk) 09:12, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Так населенные пункты блокированные силами АТО отличаются от тех, в которых просто идут бои. --Vasylysk (talk) 18:51, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Дороги

Чи не можна би було нанести на карту хоча б основні дороги, для того щоб можна б було зрозуміти можливі пересування ворога? --195.162.82.182 09:20, 29 July 2014 (UTC)

Названия городов

  • Нанесите, пожалуйста, на карту названия городов, особенно чувствуется нехватка в Луганской области (район Алчевска). Наиболее важной областью, естественно, является зона вооруженного конфликта.
  • И есть где-нибудь источник, что Торез окружен?

--UkrainianZombie (talk) 22:59, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

  • Также есть смысл объяснить, что это за желтый цвет, который занимает большую часть карты. Очевидно, что это изначальные границы конфликта, но лучше это написать, раз цвет используется.

--UkrainianZombie (talk) 23:06, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Answering questions

@ZomBear: I know you are busy, but there are a lot of questions on this page, and you are the only person who knows how to edit this map. Could you either show the rest of us how to do it, or answer the questions that people present here? I can try to answer them, but we'll have to talk to each other through Google Translate.

Thanks. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 01:46, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

You want to ask me about something? About changes in the map? ok. -- ZomBear 5:07 AM, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
@ZomBear: I was asking if you could respond to the notes above. But if it is a hassle, don't worry about it. Thanks. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 01:26, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Отмена всех правок к 6 июня 2014 (Back to June 6, 2014)

Я являюсь автором обновленной версии карты, я запрещаю её использование так как она лживая и не отображает реальной картины боевых действий на Донбассе. Поэтому возвращаю карту за 6 июля 2014, до начала моих правок.
I am the author of the updated version of the map, I forbid its use as it is false and does not reflect the real picture of the fighting in the Donbass. Therefore, return card for July 6, 2014, before the start of my edits. -- ZomBear 3:51 PM, 2 August 2014 (UTC) (redacted by author[3] Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 01:25, 4 August 2014 (UTC))
Що за істерика? У чому ж брехливість?--UeArtemis (talk) 17:02, 2 August 2014 (UTC)
You also do not have the right to forbid any use of it, as long as it is attributed to you. You have irrevocably released this file, your contribution, under the Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 Unported license. So, everyone can copy, distribute or transmit it, or even adapt it to his/her own style, as long as it is attributed to you. Heracletus (talk) 00:25, 3 August 2014 (UTC)

Карта РНБО

Карта РНБО по состоянию на 5 августа - за Дмитровку идут бои. http://mediarnbo.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/05-08.jpg

Recent updates

@Metrancya: As you've made some substantial updates to the map which seem to run counter to the established sources we've used to date (namely http://liveuamap.com, http://mediarnbo.org/?p=4053), please provide sources for those.

Particularly, I notice that your map is friendlier than both of these sources too pro-insurgent friendly in the Шахтарськ region.

However, I'd like to add that from my personal observations about the news coming from the ground, your map seems to be more accurate than either of those maps (perhaps they are guilty of optimism bias?). Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 00:26, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

I think they are biased. Of course they are biased. There are quite a few versions out there. Each side controls areas that actually **seem** to overlap. So at least one side is wrong. The truth is always somewhere in the middle but still my additions have some inaccuracy. My sources: mediarnbo.org, liveuamap.com, inforesist.org, informnapalm.org, some Twitter accounts. There is actually a lack of sources from the insurgency side that should be taken into account so maybe I am still too UA-friendly.
My latest addition (that has been reverted immediately by @Merecive including the previous changes) came from different sources: including pravda.ua, informresist.org, liga.net, Dmitry Tymchuk. I would suggest to re-use the most recent version uploaded by me that has then been reverted by Merecive. The news mentioned by me don't explicitly say that Sector D has been abandoned by UA forces but exactly that is the only possibility when reading the news carefully. --Metrancya (talk) 20:44, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
I should like to point out that today Ukraine was "capturing" towns well within the area marked as already taken by most of the pro-UA maps. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 22:31, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
Yes, very special towns - in particular Миусинск - reported by Strelkov on his VK page himself. If you look at the map and ask yourself from where they appeared you have only two possibilities - a long way from the north-west - or a short way north from Дмитрівка. That was the main reason why I didn't change the colour of the area around Дмитрівка to "insurgent-held". When looking at all the strategy web-sites (like sprotyv.info) now they claim, that Миусинск could become a key operational target of UA-forces in the near future. --Metrancya (talk) 07:32, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Світлодарськ

Коли його відбили бойовики? Ніби там були українські сили.--UeArtemis (talk) 06:43, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Новая расцветка

В текущем варианте города за которые идут бои визуально слабо отличимы от городов под контролем ДНР/ЛНР. Предлагаю усилить различие. --Vasylysk (talk) 07:51, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Vandalism

This map was good in the past, but now areas and names are no more well defined and source data is not clear. I know that different sources may give different information about the event, but i think the previous version was better. Why the picture was vandalized, then? — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.0.50.33 (talk) 19:51, August 7, 2014‎ (UTC)

You're going to have to be more specific than that, IP. Which previous version was better? They're all in the history for you to reference. Why was it better? Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 22:33, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

please refresh image

Изображение не соответствует действительности, и нуждается в замене. Использование красных оттенков не корректны, десяток поселков находятся под контролем украинских войск, но на карте указано что они под контролем ополченцев К сожалению не знаю как обновить изображение, я подготовил новую версию https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Map_of_war_in_eastern_Ukraine_in_08.08.14.png Просьба обновите свою версию с моей, и если нужно отредактируте. Сделано согласно последней информации http://liveuamap.com/?ll=47.884311212776225;37.88889671325682&zoom=10

Done. RobiH (talk) 19:12, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

Most recent updates

  • DNR is now surrounded. Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/09/donetsk-surrounded_n_5664366.html
  • I've more closely hued the lines according to liveuamap.
  • I took away the battle status from several cities where liveuamap didn't mark as having a recent battle. I didn't include airstrikes in Antratsyt, because it didn't involve ground troops.
  • mediarnbo.org is down (DoS?), so I haven't used it.
  • I tried my best to keep the letters and borders with proper shading. But, as I've previously said, it is nearly impossible with a PNG map. I strongly suggest that someone with the technical skills port this into an SVG. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 01:10, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
My update has been partially reverted, although I guess it wasn´t done on purpose.
1st, can someone explain how can you move those background color lines in PS? I can´t figure it out for the hell of me.
2nd Shakhtarsk is in sep hands
3rd Dyakove is in UA hands (http://icorpus.ru/svodka-ot-shtaba-opolcheniya-mo-dnr-09-08-2014-2020-msk/) For the record, Icorpus is official Strelkov website
4th villages south-east of Snizhne are in UA hands (http://www.informator.su/gruppyi-ato-shturmuyut-limanchuk-i-pervomayku/)
5th Panteleimonivka is in UA hands - http://mashable.com/2014/08/09/ukraine-surrounded/
6th Saur-Mogyla is in UA hands - here are pics https://www.facebook.com/HelpArmy.in.ua/posts/1456719391279735
7th Marinka is fully in UA hands, IDK what made you think its not
EllsworthSK (talk) 16:22, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
It was not intentional on my part. I don't use Photoshop; I use Gimp and I edit the line pixel by pixel. I would reincorporate your updates, but I do not have time right now. I would revert to the previous version, but it was quite out of date. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 17:56, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Actually, I updated it. I'm somewhat confused by Shakhtarsk, as the maps I've seen indicate it is in UA hands, and the DNR admits it is surrounded, but you say it's not? Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 18:20, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Partially it is. From north and south. But the city itself remains in separatist hands and also the road up to Miusynk. EllsworthSK (talk) 19:44, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Some remarks

Look please here

Expert comments

Please change in the following way:

  • Пантелеймоновка Panteleymonovka - to UA
  • Круглик Kruglik - paint it and add to UA, it is an important point
  • Станица Луганская - to insurgents (sorry, it is not taken yet, it is an error in everyday map!)
  • Саур-Могила Sawur Mogila - fully to UA, now the top point is taken
  • Шахтёрск Shachtersk - to insurgents, but south of it to UA

— Preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.181.212.243 (talk) 18:08, August 10, 2014‎ (UTC)

  • Пантелеймоновка is already UA.
  • I cannot add Круглик. @ZomBear:?
  • Луганская is already UA.
  • Саур-Могила is already UA
  • Шахтёрск is already RU.
Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 18:27, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Kruglik is here just in the middle of Малониколаевка and Ореховка, and Успенка Uspenka near Lutugino has unclear state (make it brown, please)

V — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.181.212.243 (talk) 18:48, August 10, 2014‎ (UTC)

More additions. It turned out that a three way operation is in progress. UA forces are progressing from the west (Fashchivka, from liveuamap.com), northeast (Ivanivka after the fall of Kruglik, from liveuamap.com & http://inforesist.org/itogi-dnya-10-avgusta/), south (Krasny Luch after the complete takeover of Miusinsk (http://mediarnbo.org/?p=4314). This is accompanied by fights in the Krasnodon, Krasni Yar direction (http://tsn.ua/politika/sili-ato-rozpochali-zachistku-krasnogo-yaru-na-luganschini-362591.html) which I indicated. Informnapalm.org already had UA forces in the Krasni Yar direction for some time now. It was about time to include that now into the map. Finally a comment on "encircling the donbass". It is not necessary at all to remove the connection between Shakhtar and Torez. There is still a bridge held by the insurgents. The above mentioned 3-way operation through sparsely populated regions finally provides a cutoff of all the insurgents forces in the DNR from a re-supply from the east. At the same time the progress from Lutuhyne towards Ivanivka and from the west towards Fashchivka also separates the insurgents forces in the northern region from a supply through Krasnodon etc. With other words, the UA forces are trying to separate both the DNR forces in the west and the forces in the north around Alchevsk in one single move from supply channels close to the russian boarder. That is meant, when you read in all the relevant media that Donezk and / or t"the Donbass" have been encircled. It is this 3-way move towards Krasny Luch that does the trick. --Metrancya (talk) 22:36, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
Perhaps, but when it takes to take-over of towns we cannot write it down here unless at least one side of the conflict (RNBO or Icorpus) confirms it. Or independent journalist from the area (so not LifeNews, but rather foreign media who are now in Donetsk and confirmed as first fall of Avdiivka). LiveUAmap is a handy website, but its not WP:RS as it gather information from open source materials, especially heavily relying on twitter which many times proves to be unreliable. EllsworthSK (talk) 19:26, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Also for Ivanovka, I see no source saying that the attack came from Lutyhyne direction, that is just speculation. Attack from direction of Krasnyi Luch is much more likely given the cutting of the road between Antratsyt and Krasnyi Luch by UA military. EllsworthSK (talk) 19:28, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Krasnyi Luch is a problem. I can remember somehow (although not sure) that Strelkov wrote that they lost Krasnyi Luch. But - certainly there were attempts to re-take the town as there are lots of insurgents to the east (Antratsyt) and southwest (Snizhne). Regarding Ivanovka: yes you are right. But Ivanovka is situated on road H-21 from Lutuhyne and controlling that road is of strategic importance. I also thought that it makes no sense to progress beyond Krasnyi Luch when the city could be the target of a counter-attack. I would keep that particular situation as the most recent RNBO map (http://mediarnbo.org/?p=4345) also showed a lot of progress between Lutuhyne and Alchevsk (which will be reflected in the next version of the map), which makes the extremely long corridor between Lutuhyne and Ivanovka somewhat shorter and more reasonable. Apart from all that - there were not so many reports about progresses elsewhere (an unconfirmed report about getting Krinichna - only one source). I will show at least a corridor approaching that village... --Metrancya (talk) 19:46, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Update: Strelkov just wrote that they have retaken Miusynsk and Krasnyi Luch. I will not add it to the map as there is no independent confirmation but it wouldn't be unreasonable given the concentration of forces in the area... --Metrancya (talk) 20:16, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
One thing needs to be clear. That VKontakte page is NOT Strelkov. Its bogus. Strelkov does not give any more official statements. The only official source of seps is icorpus.ru. It is the only one, there is no else. And that was last updated 2 days ago.
Also Icorpus.ru said that but in next report said that reinforcements arrived and that city was contested. RNBO statement said the same, that they have not captured Krasnyi Luch.
Also from Lutyhyno there is Uspenka where frontline of seps is located. I saw nothing about it being overrun. Military could´ve bypassed it, IDK, but no sources said anything about attack coming from Lutuhyne.
The RNBO map is not particularly good. Even in latest version they mistaken Krasnyi Luch for Antratsyt. Their statements are ok, their graphics team is shit. EllsworthSK (talk) 20:50, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
I saw that mistake. Insurgents: the "Strelkov" vk.com page actually is updated permanently. Even if there are "only" field commanders writing, you need to take progress reports there seriously - and compare it with independent sources and RNBO. Because of a report there and on inforesist.org (link below as part of my previous posting), I finally changed Krasnyi Luch and Miusynsk back to "insurgents-held". Regarding Uspenka: taken. I also saw no report about it being overrun.... --Metrancya (talk) 21:14, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
There are no field commanders writing there. Its a blog basically of some "guy" who copy-pasts everything. Strelkov never had nothing to do with it. There are few sources that are reliable or official. Among them is no VK, FB or Twitter page. Lastly, according to Wiki own rules (WP:RS, WP:BIASED or WP:NOR) they are unusable. Next point - what you described is Original Research. That is against Wiki rules. Next point - Inforesist states no such thing.
На направлении Миусинск-Красный Луч, продолжались активные бои. IDK if you speak Ukrainian or/and Russian but it says nothing about Miusynk being taken. It says battle continues as it was for some time. The neutral sources say no such thing, neither do sep sources. Hence I reverted your addition. If you want some first-hand source, which cannot be used due to wiki rules, its here [4] photo of guys from 30th and 95th mech brigade currently guarding the road between Krasnyi Luch and Antratsyt which they blocked few days ago. The source is journalist for Inter TV. Still, as its Facebook and did not go through editing process within the media, its unusable. This source-hunting and relying on unreliable sources has to stop. Better to wait few days and get it right than jump on every tweet or whatever, whether its true or not. EllsworthSK (talk) 21:24, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Taken. You are right, it doesn't make sense to add everything after a few moments. Originally the progress reports on this page / this map were coming from secondary sources (who is actually copying from whom?). it is necessary to provide the really useful sources on this page... --Metrancya (talk) 21:31, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Donetsk and Luhansk

rebel leader admitted donetsk was completely surrounded, so why is donetsk connected with luhansk again? Just wanting to know--Arbutus the tree (talk) 23:13, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

The map shows the surroundment, just not as well. The map does not include the river that runs between both Oblasts (Mius river) that separates them. Thanks to this separatists have to rely on highways and the final one was cut in area of Krasnyi Luch. Before that, previous highway was cut with take-over of Debaltsevo. EllsworthSK (talk) 23:31, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

Warning about unreliable sources

Inforesist.org usually tries to strip all propaganda from news and to be one of the more objective websites. While it is definitely a pro-UA website, the main author of daily situation briefings wrote that many UA sources behave like those in the Soviet Union - pure propaganda, read here: http://inforesist.org/itogi-dnya-11-avgusta/ With other words, please be careful about the selection of news for progress reports and map changes.Please add new info to the maps only when it has been confirmed by news sources from both sides and / or independent websites. Which will prove to be difficult. --Metrancya (talk) 21:07, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

More or less reliable sources to be used for the map generation (please add your own websites):

  • inforesist.org (2nd hand source, independent / pro-UA) - despite being UA-based tries to be an independent source, more or less reliable
  • burkonews.info / informnapalm.org (2nd hand source, independent / pro UA) - despite being UA-based tries to be an independent source, more or less reliable
  • mediarnbo.org (1st hand source, not independent / UA officials) - more or less reliable, may not be used without independent confirmation
  • icorpus.ru (1st hand source, not independent / insurgents officials) - may not be used without independent confirmation
  • vk.com/strelkov_info (2nd hand source, collection of opinions mixed with some not independent material / pro insurgents) - often subjective POV
  • sprotyv.info / Dmitry Tymchuk (2nd hand source, independent / pro UA) - more or less reliable, sometimes statements while wearing "patriotic gloves", may not be used without independent confirmation
  • ...
If I can give my 2 cents.
1st - lets recognize that UA and RUS are in state of infowar. Hence treat every UA and RUS source as such.
2nd - based on this, lets recognize change in territories only if the picture of video evidence was provided
3rd - in other cases, lets recognize loss of territory if party which lost it recognizes it
4th - Foreign Reliable Sources (AFP, APA, BBC etc.) are deemed reliable
5th - sources of both sides are exclusively this - Icorpus.ru, site which publishes official updates of DNR militia. RNBO, site that publishes official updates of Ukrainian army
EllsworthSK (talk) 22:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Also there is an update on Icorpus.ru [5]. First, it says that fighting for Krasnyi Luch and Miusynk is ongoing. Hence info about its fall to sep hands is incorrect. It also states that the critical main road remains under UA control and is cut. Second, it recognizes that fighting is going on in vicinity of Illovaisk. Third, it recognizes loss of villages Korsun, Verkhnya Krynka, Monakhove and Krynychna between Horlivka and Makiivka. This should be noted. EllsworthSK (talk) 22:43, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Magog Updates 2014-08-11

My updates today, all from liveuamap:

  • Clashes near the eastern city limits of Debalsteve.
  • Heavy fighting between Krasnyi Luch and Antratsyt.
  • Explosions near Mospnye.
  • Krinichna to Ukraine.
  • Not sure what to make that Stakhanov has been seized by militants. We've kind of let that portion of the map go; do we need to make it more friendly to Ukraine? Or maybe add a color for "unknown"?
  • Heavy battles in Ilovaisk, also according to mediarnbo.
  • Just south of Torez and Snizhne was seized by Ukraine.
  • Ukraine army near Krasnyi Yar, near Krasnodon.

Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 01:58, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Liveuamap is a source redistributing 1st hand source, mostly from Twitter. We need to be careful with several statements over there. "Krinichna to Ukraine" - yes, icorpus.ru stated that as well. "just south of Torez & Snizhne" - OK, but what does that mean? Stakhanov: it has already been seized by militants - for several months now. I wouldn't use such an "info". --Metrancya (talk) 06:04, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Possible updates 2014-08-12 - to be confirmed

Look please:

V

Lots of infos, please check for validity and new situations (I have problems with the "colourful" language):

M — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.67.103.254 (talk) 08:55, August 12, 2014‎ (UTC)

Vvchrushevo was confirmed by Poroshenko, lets not use such lolsource as RusVesna, and Fashevka was not confirmed by anyone, plus source is nothing close to reliable. Also its not taken, I can assure you of that, nor was there any attempt to take it today. EllsworthSK (talk) 19:13, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Okay, Vakhrusheve added to the map... --Metrancya (talk) 20:32, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
@EllsworthSK: just came up with a hilarious yet meaningful new neologism: lolsource. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 02:45, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

At the Conclusion of the War

If somebody happens to have all the updates, could you make a gif of a time-lapse of the war at the conclusion of it? I think that would be a good way to show the history of what happened and be informative of the tactics the Ukrainians used and how certain events changed conflict zones. — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.80.22.226 (talk) 21:35, August 12, 2014‎ (UTC)

Now, the best source for such a thing already exists. There are the maps of a separatist, apparently quite accurate although the zones and areas of influence of the separatists do not fit the areas shown in this wikimedia commons map. But "zones of influence" or "areas of influence" do not necessarily need to be the same between separatist sources and UA sources. More important is where the main things are happening and - as it seems - both maps are showing the same at that point - almost. As far as I can see, the maps of the separatist are rather in the form of the maps as the military is commonly using. So simply use it. You can find it here: http://kot-ivanov.livejournal.com/ For all others here: there is not a single truth. The separatist map could be as accurate (or even more accurate) than our Wikimedia Commons map... --Metrancya (talk) 22:55, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

Possible updates 2014-08-13 - to be confirmed

  1. Sprotyv.info mentioned fights in Petrovske by progressing north of Ivanivka. The mediarnbo map later showed the same fights. So it is confirmed (more or less)...
  2. The area directly north of Shakhtarsk and Torez seems to be deserted. Who is actually taking care of that area?
  3. The area directly west of Uspenka (west of Luhansk) is probably still hold by insurgents. I didn't find any evidence that that area has been taken by UA forces. Any comments on that?
  4. Horlivka still isn't completely isolated - any confirmation? --Metrancya (talk) 10:39, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Its not. No actual evidence.
No one knows. Regular fighting. Impossible to determine.
Yes, including Uspenka
Its not, road to Yenakievo and from there through Kirovsk towards Makiivka is in sep hands. Crucial point is Karlo-Marksove village.
Next points - Pervomaisk has not been taken. I know that RNBO has said they did, but no confirmation so far. Mark it orange.
RNBO claims to have taken Hirske. Also orange as no proof so far provided (http://espreso.tv/news/2014/08/13/ukrayinski_viyskovi_zvilnyly_selysche_hirske_na_luhanschyni___atc)
Western Debaltsevo isn´t contested, no source claims such thing. If you want more info, from people I know in Donbas, skirmishes are in Zorynsk area but do not take this as a source for something.
EllsworthSK (talk) 18:29, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Also some other things. Zyhomira is in seps hands (http://informator.lg.ua/?p=21238). Slovyanoserbsk as well. Based on these info I created a map that should be probably most accurate based on reliable sources. I uploaded it in svg format provided up top. EllsworthSK (talk) 18:47, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Ok, I can´t sodding do it. I´ll upload it here [6] EllsworthSK (talk) 18:52, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
It looks like you renamed my file (wanted that name to begin with, but it wouldn't let me). So I will try uploading as the new name next time. :-) Going to work on some more city names; will use your updated version. Marktaff (talk) 19:14, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
I understood something completely different regarding Slovyanoserbsk - from inforesist.org where it was mentioned as well - it is in the rear of the front. And the front has lots of holes there. And the area is sparsely populated and almost only forest and so on. Insurgents are collecting there (on a land that is supposedly liberated) - especially east of Slovianoserbsk to open up a new front. That has to be taken into account. I was about to introduce a new colour to introduce these "behind the frontlines" activities. I would not use it with the normal pink colour for areas of insurgents - maybe "white" indicating an area where actually nobody knows who owns it... --Metrancya (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Apparently insurgents are going there into a "no-mans land" --Metrancya (talk) 21:07, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

POV and Bad Quality

There are many issues with the current image.

  • The data size is too small (300kb), which makes it harder for other to do a quality job when updating the file.
  • Some city names are degraded to the point of being unreadable due to poor edits.
  • DPR and LNR should be separate colors. They declared their republics separately, with separate political and military structures, and showing them as separate provides better information.
  • Some of the cities are 'ghosted' by another color due to poor editing.
  • The new pink color really sucks, imo. :-)
  • There should be no color for 'areas recaptured by separatists'. Doing that brings up POV issues, i.e. will we add yet another color when the Ukraine army recaptures the recaptured area? Also, it goes beyond the stated purpose of this map: to show the current situation, not the most recent military change(s) by either side.

I think we should revert to Alex1961's version of 1330 hrs 4 August 2014, and then incorporate the more recent battlefield changes. Marktaff (talk) 02:10, 8 August 2014 (UTC)

As I made most of the changes: I am open to a better quality image. 300kB resulted from the conversion of a true-colour image to 256 colours to allow a better editing of colours. Some city names are in fact somewhat poorly readable. It would be nice if the next version could contain "layers" to modify the area colour in the background independently from the town names. The 'ghosting' was present already at the time when I started to make changes. As I said, you would need a new image with several layers to avoid that. The pink colour is nice - it is perfectly "biting" the yellow colour ;-) The "recaptured" colour: ok, but in that case you could also argue that the yellow background of the UA-taken areas doesn't make sense.... --Metrancya (talk) 07:32, 8 August 2014 (UTC)
I think the yellow showing the maximum extent of the two separatist republics is useful information, and it is largely static. If one or both republics take territory beyond the yellow, then the yellow should be updated. The main issue with the 'recaptured' colors is that combat is a fluid situation, and these areas are likely to rapidly and repeatedly change hands. For example, one side make 'take' a city, but then withdraw or continue to advance because they have no intention of 'holding' the city. It just seems problematic from a POV and accuracy viewpoint. As a user, I would rather just see the base color of each republic expand/contract as the lines change. One of the nice things about the http://liveuamap.com/ map is the grey areas that designate the operational area of the sides for which neither side has firm control. I agree it would be much nicer if this image was a 1,000+ layer SVG file--it would make high quality changes much easier. :-) Marktaff (talk) 04:47, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Metrancya, I think that solid yellow that you use for "Territory of Ukraine unaffected by insurgents" is not only unnecessary and does not contain any useful information (yes this is still Ukraine, in every single derived file) but also significantly decreases map readability. Dark Pink for "Current territory retaken by insurgents" - there is no point to have another color for territory captured by insurgents, and there is no way to confirm every fact of territory capturing or re-capturing. Please get rid of those colors, especially now when you have layered svg.--Kassigainen (talk) 20:45, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

New SVG Version

Since there have been many issues with image degradation due to map updates, I made a new SVG version last night (and today): https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:East_Ukraine_conflict_svg.svg

It is reasonably up-to-date, but may not reflect the most recent situation.

The image contains layers that should make it easier to update. I labeled about 20% of the cities with their Latin-ized names. There are layers for English and Ukrainian, but the Ukrainian layers will need to be translated by someone with a Cyrillic keyboard handy. :-) I have no intention of adding the other English cities, but feel free to add them yourself. :-) The layer 'original.image' is the ZomBear image I based the map off of--showing that layer will be helpful for naming cities. The Latin-ized names were determined from http://liveuamap.com/ (so, presumably, google maps). Marktaff (talk) 22:08, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Nice work. Very good! Actually, the situation is in constant flow so it is as "up-to-date" as the two or three previous maps....Metrancya (talk) 22:23, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
Thank you, Marktaff. Tomorrow at evening I may add the english variation of the names into the map and replace thus this one. Good work. EllsworthSK (talk) 22:49, 11 August 2014 (UTC)
I changed my mind. I am going to add some more Latin-ized names. After having worked on it yesterday until I couldn't see straight, all I wanted was sleep. :-) But now I feel like working on it some more.Marktaff (talk) 13:48, 12 August 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for svg, Marktaff. I've derived from your file and made version with russian names (from original png) + filled some missing names in the western part of the map. Also I felt that file is overflowed with unnecessary nodes so I cleaned some from water and oblast layers.--Kassigainen (talk) 20:27, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

I have finished with the city names now; feel free to translate. Enjoy. :-)

Pervomaysk?

Please, make it orange, and make Gorskoe blue TheNeon (talk) 19:24, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

This is the svg file that is in use on main page of en article [7]. bytheway can someone merge these two pages? The SVG is obviously better suited for use than png. EllsworthSK (talk) 19:28, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
As for Hirske, I know that it was released by ATO, but so far we have only Ministry of Interior claiming that. We need an independent source, a photo / video confirmation or admission of loss by second side. Only way to ensure that we do not jump the gun. EllsworthSK (talk) 19:37, 13 August 2014 (UTC)
Is there any evidence that the ATO has exaggerated the situation on the ground, to date? As far as I can tell, both sides have been truthful. And that's as good a source as any. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 00:36, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, you had Saur-Mogila that they declared as theirs when it was contested and it took additional 2 week for troopers to get a full control. They also declared that Pervomaisk was captured, it was not. They also declared capture of Yenakiyevo before it actually happened. That is just from top of my head. EllsworthSK (talk) 11:20, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
I don't think that shows bias. Capturing an area or town is not the same thing as securing it or holding it. A town may be captured, lost, then recaptured many times before combat stops in the town. Also, if one side captures a town, there could still be new attacks against the town by the other side without negating the fact that it was captured. It is also possible to capture a town with no intention of trying to hold it. This is why we should be quick to make a town orange, but slow to make it red or blue. To me, red and blue should be for towns firmly controlled by the sides, and not subject to combat.Marktaff (talk) 13:33, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
But neither thing happened. Donbass said the same day that what RNBO said about Pervomaisk is untrue and that they are not in control of the town, but fighting. Today RNBO said that they were wrong. Sometimes they release intel before it actualy happens. And yes, I agree with last point. Reagarding that, RNBO claims control of Novosvitlivka [8] EllsworthSK (talk) 15:05, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Threat of Propaganda

Disinformation threat / propaganda: there are currently lots of disinformation attempts / propaganda attempts running. The story with the takeover attempt in Novosvitlivka might be put forward by Russian propaganda to have a political reason to accuse the UA side. We should not use such info without thorough investigation. Therefore: the Novosvitlivka story has been reverted for now. It is too hot. Wikipedia shouldn't use disinformation - or material that MIGHT be disinformation. --Metrancya (talk) 06:10, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

rbc.ua is now claiming the Ukrainians captured the town. Seems reliable.[9] Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 15:20, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
Very much like "contested" settlements (brown), there are areas with unclear status (white), sometimes used by both sides, sometimes with a lot of holes for convoys of the other side. All areas where it is not absolutely clear who is owner, will now be painted "white". We simple have too much disinformation at the moment - it is not the purpose of Wikipedia to say wrong things... Novosvitlivka now brown... The area of Slovianoserbsk now pink because of reports with Grad fights over there... --Metrancya (talk) 15:33, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Two towns to rebels

Liveuamap is reporting Marinivka and Pervomaisk to militants. This could change at a moment's notice, of course.

Someone please tell me this isn't because the Russians are using aid trucks as human shields or to transport new equipment! This would be cynical politics at its worst. (Although, to be honest, Russia has been cynically manipulating events and propaganda throughout the conflict). Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 16:19, 14 August 2014 (UTC)

Pervomaisk is as was - contested.
Marinka is true, video evidence of border crossing was provided. Village was probably in their hands all along and we jumped the gun. EllsworthSK (talk) 02:00, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Switch to SVG

Someone please do it for the current image. I will refuse to do updates right now, as everything is in flow and actually nobody can follow the fast pace of things to happen. I would use the white colour as there is a lot of uncertainty right now. Nevertheless, a few things:

  • There seems to be a connection between Snizhne and the boarder. Icorpus.ru published a video stating the "great victory of Stepanivka".
  • Informnapalm.org even shows that almost all of the area east a line between Donetsk and Uspenka could go to RUS / insurgents troops
  • other (UA-friendly) sources are claiming fights in the SE outskirts of Donetsk
  • other (UA-friendly) sources claim that Novosvitlivsk is completely encirclement - but M04 is interrupted.
  • other (UA-friendly) sources are saying that Krasnyi Luch and Miusynsk are lost but that the road H-21 is still interrupted close to Donetsk

Please! --Metrancya (talk) 10:12, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Novosvitlivka

the town has been retaken by Ukrainian forces, and Luhansk is completely surrounded. Does anyone mind making changes to the map? The Offical ATO map states that Slovyanoserbsk is under there control, so this map needs to be updated a little--Arbutus the tree (talk) 16:01, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Not just ATO. Russian journo with separatists says that Novosvitlivka has been taken by Aidar together with Luhansk regional hospital where many injured seps were (its situated in Leninskyi district) [10]. I am going to get myself drunk so if no one will do it, I´ll do it. Also I´ll merge this png with svg map as this became obsolete EllsworthSK (talk) 16:57, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Do it, please. For me the pace of developments is too fast now - and transferring everything to the SVG map is a good idea anyway...
Apart from that, the area around Slovianoserbsk is indicated by informnapalm.org to be infiltrated by insurgents from Stakhanov - and yesterday there were reports about Slovianoserbsk & Zimogorye in the hand of insurgents (the last version of the map that was from me indicated that, already...). the situation in the area south of the ATO zone is very unstable - not because of the insurgents in Ukraine but because of insurgents / russian forces beyond the boarder to the south.
And finally, Svitlodarsk is located on the M03 to Debaltseve - if that village would be under control of insurgents, then Debaltseve would have a very hard time - and that for 1-2 weeks already. Someone please color that village blue, please, everything else doesn't make sense. --Metrancya (talk) 17:55, 15 August 2014 (UTC)

Move of Discussion page

I moved the discussion page from the PNG version to the SVG version, as that is the one that counts now. Please adjust all links to the PNG version to the SVG version where necessary (East Ukraine Conflict.png --> Карта_боевых_действий_на_Востоке_Украины.svg). Thanks. --Metrancya (talk) 02:49, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

I've updated all PNG links to the SVG now. I've also moved the archives and updated the archive bot, which you forgot. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 12:59, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
I didn't forget that - I never worked with the bot. THX! --Metrancya (talk) 14:15, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Zimohirie and Rodakove

Look, please

Зимогорье и Родаково Zimohirie and Rodakove to insurgents (declared from both sides) here and here, Mkkhailovka Михайловка not to UA TheNeon (talk) 14:56, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

The weblink http://www.rnbo.gov.uk is incorrect, it should be: http://www.rnbo.gov.ua. --Ajv39 (talk) 20:10, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Latest updates 2014-08-16

Some of the "rebel gains" shown by the map are questionable. Especially Svitliodarsk would be extremely dangerous for the UA forces as it controls the Highway M03, so far the only connection to Debaltseve. Apparently, the initiative is back to the UA forces, that might be reflected on the maps.

Some of the UA gains are questionable as well. Novosvitlivka might be retaken by rebels (but nonetheless UA forces are north of this town therefore having control over highway M04).

Also: lots of (yet to be confirmed) UA gains south / southeast / east of Yenakijeve. To be confirmed. If true, a 3-way connection could be in reach, separating Donetsk / Makiivka from Yenakijeve & Shakhtarsk (encircled), separating Yenakieve / Horlivka from everything (encircling) ... --Metrancya (talk) 14:47, 16 August 2014 (UTC)

Latest updates, take 2: north / northeast of Pervomaisk: why removing the red strongholds there? Where is the proof? Liveuamap is not the only valid single source for developments! --Metrancya (talk) 14:47, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Well, gee, if you'd actually read what the upload summary stated, you'd have been that I linked it to my talk page, where there are several sources, none of which is liveuamap. But really, I don't care, go ahead and revert me, and you and User:ZomBear can keep living in your goddamned fantasy world. I don't care. But I am going to put up a very large sign on the front page letting readers know that the map is bullshit. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 18:28, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Calm down ;-) That was no criticism, as it is extremely difficult to keep track right now. For this reason of disinformation I don't see any basis for new updates at the moment. Remember my last version with the "white areas"? That was rather true (due to constant disinformation on either side) than saying that area xyz belongs to side 1 or side 2. Unfortunately this colour isn't anymore... But a few general trends are visible - unlike the official UA position (RNBO) the UA forces are in a very difficult position due to the huge inflow of material and fighters from Russia (almost non-hidden anymore by the insurgents...). But of course - the insurgents are in an extremely uncomfortable position as well. So lets wait and see what will happen the next few days... --Metrancya (talk) 21:05, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Lugansk airport is still blocked by the rebels.[TSN]--Hanibal911 (talk) 15:59, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Accuracy of the map disputed due to unwillingness of contributors to accept new developments

I agree with Magog the Ogre, who flagged the map to dispute the accuracy of the shown data. This was a step being overdue. We all are Wikipedia, and Wikipedia informs but does not provide a platform to disinfom or to be party in a disinformation war. Wikipedia has to be neutral and to be a reliable source of information. I also want to point to the different language versions of the map - which are all showing ctheir own truth. That is proof enough already that the accuracy of the map(s) is far away from being satisfactory... --Metrancya (talk) 07:34, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

I assume, after the latest changes the accuracy is no longer disputed --Alex1961 (talk) 13:44, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
It doesn't make sense if I say that it is not disputed anymore. Others also need to agree... apart from that, there is still the difference between the two main versions - the RU and EN versions... --Metrancya (talk) 14:46, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Updates 2014-08-17

First updates of the day: used the map from Magog the Ogre. Lots of infos from the NSDC updates, apparently Ilovaisk & Mospyne are not in the focus today. Lots of fights south, west, and southwest of Donetsk apparently. Eastern fights around Savur Mohyla, NSDC reported that they are still holding "a mound 'near' Savur Mohyla" (does that mean that Savur Mohyla itself is lost?). NSDC reports convoys of insurgents going northward through Dyakove (means that Dyakove is now "red"). Tanks of insurgents yesterday in Dmytrivka (liveuamap). That simply means that the are south of Miusynsk is completely pink now. Insurgents took back Novosvitlivka but the corridor between Novosvitlika and Lugansk still controlled by UA (inforesist.org / sprotyv.info). Fights reported for the are around Krasnyi Luch, therefore one can still assume that UA forces are still there. Finally a "success" story for UA: Zhdanovka taken. --Metrancya (talk) 13:07, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

1st corrections. Yasynuvata, Pervomaisk: fights. Northeastern outskirts of Luhansk taken by UA. --Metrancya (talk) 13:23, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Another update: yesterday, ChristopherJM from KyivPost managed to drive from Donetsk to Snizhne without seeing any fight - road completely controlled by insurgents - therefore larger pink area around Shakhtarsk. This does not exclude occasional shelling of Shakhtarsk through UA forces as as been reported as well. --Metrancya (talk) 13:28, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Crimea, a small village at the Sievierodonezk west of Slavyanoserbsk was liberated through fights today (Avakov statement). That gave rise to adjust the area there to fit with the area in pink shown in the english version of the map + Slavyanoserbst in red as that was already in one of the older maps - and the city was never liberated.... --Metrancya (talk) 14:41, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
But the Pro-Russian rebels denied that army captured of the Yasinovataya. Rebels of DNR and LNR continues to clashes with security forces on all fronts, in the course of which was repulsed attack on a northern suburb of Donetsk Yasinovataya. Since the second half of Saturday Ukrainian forces tactical group, supported by artillery from the direction Avdeyevka undertook violent attempt to take the city Yasinovataya. But rebels successfully repulsed all attacks.MKTVCIVestiRia News Ukraine --Hanibal911 (talk) 15:49, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Ukrainian activists also denied that army captured Jasinovata.Korrespondent Net--Hanibal911 (talk) 15:52, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Korrespondent Net - 4.08. NBS (talk) 17:21, 17 August 2014 (UTC)
Battalion "Golden Gate" came under mortar attack near the town of Shchastya.112 News--Hanibal911 (talk) 17:06, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Next update: Forgot to update NE-Luhansk - most northeasterly district under the control of UA forces, therefore a small corner of Luhansk painted in blue. Also smaller corridor SE of Debaltseve towards Krasnyi Luch - did that corridor exist at all? I also made a thicker pink area SW of Torez / Snizhne. Also the RNBO map shows fights there so I assume that insurgents are approaching Amvrosiivka (but still without showing fights there - yet). Finally: as UA forces did have some record on success messages when they still didn't have the point under control (Savur Mohyla, Pervomaisk) I finally respond to the countermessages: Yasinovata back to orange... --Metrancya (talk) 17:14, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Blue != Ukraine controlled after a battle. Blue = Ukraine controlled without a battle. I suggest we should add in a few more colors: Ukraine controlled battle, rebel controlled battle. I don't think we need colors for "unsure." I realize there is some fog of war, and we won't have the exact battle lines, but I this keeps it nice and simple. And, for the most part, we are able to figure out the lines within 24 hours of a change. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 22:52, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Орфография

  1. Между "города" и "контролируемые" необходимы запятые (причастный оборот).
  2. Между "обновляется" и "ссылаясь" тоже нужна запятая (деепричастный оборот).
  3. Ясиноватая, а не Ясиновата. AndyVolykhov (talk) 20:39, 16 August 2014 (UTC)
Fixed now. Thanks! --Kassigainen (talk) 16:54, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Updates 2014-08-18

For the last updates today - I do not consider the RNBO map a reliable source anymore. Especially the areas indicated are horribly outdated. I am only trusting the map somehow when it comes to the location of fights yesterday - because that changes every day... The NSDC twitter messages indicate, that from Debaltseve fighting is underway along the main road to Alchevsk - like Adrianopil... --Metrancya (talk) 12:03, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Горловка, Малоивановка, Адрианополь и Алчевск
Clashes in the Stanica Luganskaya near the city Lugansk.sourcesourcesource--Hanibal911 (talk) 13:07, 18 August 2014 (UTC)
Villages Malaya Ivanovka and Andrianovka still not taken they only locked by troops.CNSD
1)Pervomaisk - Map from NSDC not correct because this source yesterday also showed on the map that Pervomaisk on 12:00 here was under army control but yesterday evening Ukrainian TV channel said that the city is under the control of insurgents.Podrobnosti and yesterday another Ukrainian soure said that city Pervomaisk still inder cintrol by rebels.Grdon UA Also, this map on August 15 showed Pervomais'k under the control of the army.here Although many sources have confirmed that it is controlled by the rebels. Pravda Ua

2)Miusinsk - Clashes in the city Miusinsk.112 UAGazeta Ua Map which you are using is not fully updated because Pervomais'k was recaptured by the rebels on 15 August but your card will still showed it under the control of the army.here Although many sources have confirmed that it is controlled by the rebels. Pravda UaLB.ua Also her source on 16 August said that city under control by rebel.Grdon UA and also here map from the National Security Council showed that city Pervomais'k under army control.here But reliable sources have confirmed that the city is under control of rebels.Podrobnosti And today the battalion commander "Artemivs'k" Konstantin Mateychenko said military actions are in Pervomaisk.

Today some sources said that Pervomaysk still under control the terrorists.sourcesource--Hanibal911 (talk) 15:13, 18 August 2014 (UTC)

Way from Debaltsevo to Alchevsk

Please look here http://odessa-daily.com.ua/news/antiterroristicheskaya-operaciya-v-ukraine-svodka-po-sostoyaniyu-na-18-avgusta-2014-id68665.html Maybe Vergulevka, Zorinsk, Yaschchikovo (Вергулевка, Зоринск, Ящиково)should be in fighting state (orange)? TheNeon (talk) 08:01, 19 August 2014 (UTC)

As it appears Ukrainian forces are trying to separate Alchevsk area by creating buffer on Ivanovka - Lutuhino line , Currently they are taking control over Malonikolaevka on that line , and Illiria which is located between Perevalsk and Uspenka.Also they are fightining over Zemlyanki , north side of Makeevka [11]

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