Category talk:Signage at demonstrations and protests supporting Basque prisoners
- Page moved from Category talk:Banners and signs supporting ETA prisoners
Neutral point of view in description of category
[edit]This category was moved from Category:Banners and signs supporting the Basque political prisoners to Category:Banners and signs supporting ETA prisoners. One user expressed concern over the new name, since not all prisoners supported by these banners are actual ETA members [1]. He mentioned the example of Arnaldo Otegi, who is currently serving time for activities (such as speeches and attempting to create a political party) that would be considered political in many jurisdictions. Otegi is not the most problematic instance, since he had previously been an ETA member in the 70's and 80's, so he could fall under both categories. Similarly, most of the prisoners that are tagged as political in these banners are actual current or former ETA members or have colaborated in their violent actions. But a few other current or former inmates, like Rafael Díaz Usabiaga, Miren Zabaleta, Arkaitz Rodríguez, Sonia Jacinto or Aurore Martin have actually be imprisoned due to political activities. If files are to be kept in the same category, ideally it should be described neutrally. --Javier ME (talk) 16:14, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- Of course that can be argued that Otegi and co. have been imprisoned by activities related to an organization that is considered by the Spanish justice as part of ETA, but it would not solve the main issue. I do understand that the problem is not in this category but in the inclusion within this category of images of people not broadly considered to belong to ETA. Which would you propose? --Ecemaml talk to me/habla conmigo 17:32, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
- I don't really know. If File:Iosu uribetxeberria 0001.JPG and File:Pankarta presoak donostia 0005.JPG are about Iosu Uribeetxebarria Bolinaga, they fit in a category of ETA prisoners, while File:Pankarta presoak donostia 0004.JPG refers explicitly to political prisoners, but others are not so explicit, so having the two categories wouldn't solve all problems. Besides, we have several other photos of buildings which have a banner demanding repatriation of Basque prisoners like the one in File:Euskal presoak euskal herrira.jpg and are not yet categorised here. --Javier ME (talk) 14:46, 10 April 2013 (UTC)
- No. I don't know much about Law, but I don't think the Spanish administrations allege that all these prisoners *belong* to ETA (not even somo of who committed crimes that would also be illegal under other countries law, like providing guns or hiding actual ETA members). "Pertenencia a banda armada" ≠ "Colaboración con banda armada". At least, this denomination of ETA prisoners might be understood as prisoners related to ETA, instead of explicitly belonging to it. --Javier ME (talk) 14:58, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
- I was thinking on something like that. Related to sounds too ambiguous, but I can't find a term more precise which encompasses all cases. On the other hand, all the banners that are currently in this category demand actions in favour of some prisoners, but most don't literally support them. Maybe the category might be renamed sort of Banners and signs about prisoners (allegedly) related to ETA (thus including eventual banners demanding harsher punishments). Hope user:Joxemai will have his say, since he was the first one to object the name. --Javier ME (talk) 15:22, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
- All the arguments given before are valid for me, but not with prisoners allegedly related to ETA since some prisoners don't fit in that category, even for Spanish justice, administration and public opinion. I have not a proposal for this issue, I just think ETA prisoners name for those prisoners is not valid for all the goup of prisoners. I also can agree with users that say that Political prisoners is not the valid name. Perhaps something like prisoners related to ETA and basque conflict? - Joxemai (talk) 16:19, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
- The phrase Basque conflict is not perfect, too, but I see the en.wiki article en:Basque conflict links to it. Anyway, mentioning ETA in "prisoners related to ETA and Basque conflict" is redundant, since ETA is already included in the conflict. --Javier ME (talk) 14:49, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
- Besides, the most popular banner design alludes simply to Basque prisoners. We may assume people claiming Basque prisoners to the Basque Country are not thinking on Paco Larrañaga, but in fact they're not explicitly excluding him. So the category containing the vaguer signs could be named sort of Banners and signs regarding prisoners related to the Basque conflict or even Banners and signs regarding Basque prisoners, and it could have this subcategory "...supporting ETA prisoners" only with the ones which explicitly refer to ETA prisoners: I've seen at leat five files of banners on Iosu (Uribeetxebarria Bolinaga), Xabier Lopez Peña and Gatza. --Javier ME (talk) 15:11, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
- OK, I think Banners and signs regarding Basque prisoners is a good solution. - Joxemai (talk) 06:18, 15 April 2013 (UTC)