Category talk:Red envelopes

This discussion of one or several categories is now closed. Please do not make any edits to this archive.

Category:Red envelopes

Rename Category:Red envelopes (gifts) for clarity. It's not just for any red envelope. -- Themightyquill (talk) 22:39, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

there are images in this category that are just a red envelope, like the one I added. The (gift) category would be fitting as a subcategory Vera ^(talk) 22:48, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@1Veertje: That's reasonable. - Themightyquill (talk) 22:52, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose. Why bother discussing this when you've already moved it, without even a redirect, and orphaning a bunch of files?

But still, policy is that we don't disambiguate unless there's an overlap. Why go against this?

Also it breaks the existing {{By color|Envelopes|envelopes}} navbar Andy Dingley (talk) 23:09, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

on further reflection "red envelopes in east Asian traditions" or something close to that might be a better label. Vera ^(talk) 19:43, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

@Andy Dingley: I'm not sure if you're talking to me, but I didn't move anything, I just nominated it for discussion. 1Veertje (the creator of the category as far as I can see) effectively created Category:Red envelopes (gift) after we agreed on a solution. I also don't see how any files were orphaned in that process, so maybe you can explain? - Themightyquill (talk) 19:56, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

And to be clear, the Category:Red envelopes was wikidata linked to en:Red envelope, which is not just about any envelope coloured red. -- Themightyquill (talk) 19:58, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

Consensus by discussion used to be something on Wikipedia & Commons. It doesn't mean "10 minutes max, if no-one complains in that time, then just move it anyway to a name different from that discussed, and then backtrack afterwards and recreate the original". Andy Dingley (talk) 20:58, 15 November 2021 (UTC)

@Andy Dingley: Just to be clear - do you actually have a problem with the current state of things with these categories, or you just don't like the way it was done? -- Themightyquill (talk) 12:05, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

I don't like the way it was done. Nor for the French flags, which are doing just the same thing right now. Also I certainly don't like the way it was left at the time I posted.

Being too hasty to "do something" rather than stopping and thinking about it, maybe allowing a few other opinions in, always ends up the same. Chaos, a fight with 'bots who are trying to rename other stuff to catch up, then half of it gets backtracked anyway. We never did get Category:Red envelopes (gifts). We still have a Category:Red envelopes. It was completely pointless to delete it, then to just have to re-create it. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:11, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

@Andy Dingley: I agree it wasn't done a little hastily and not in the best way, but if the decision was simply to create a new sub-category Category:Red envelopes (gift) there wouldn't have been much need for discussion. That's effectively the situation we have now, even if it was done in a rather complicated/confusing way. Do you think Category:Red envelopes (gifts) would be better than Category:Red envelopes (gift)? I'm never sure whether to use plural for the disambiguation in parentheses, nor do I care very much. If singular (gift) is okay, we have consensus to leave things as they are now. - 12:51, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

As for the French flag, I don't actually know what you're referring to. - Themightyquill (talk) 12:52, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

I moved the category rather because it was already linked to the Wikidata item that described the use of red envelopes in East Asian tradition and then created the simpler parent category for envelopes that are red. This was slightly quicker than creating a child category and than linking that one to the Wikidata item. I don't get why Andy finds it necessary to complain about a process when the result is what matters. Vera ^(talk) 12:11, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

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Category:Red envelopes (gift)‎ created as subcategory. -- Themightyquill (talk) 23:29, 11 December 2021 (UTC)