Category talk:Qavam Pavilion

Naming

Why is this category named "Qavam Pavilion" when the wikipedia article is named "Qavam House"? I see very few references in English to "Qavam Pavilion" online. If you search wikicommons for "Qavam House" nothing comes up right now, so why would an editor remove an "also known as" statement to the category? This also seems to have related issues on wikidata too and is being investigated for interwiki conflicts. Joojay (talk) 21:37, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Plain and simple: I don't care about the names on wikipedia articles. There are tons of wrong and misleading names there, and it doesn't mean Commons and Wikidata should follow it. --Orijentolog (talk) 21:41, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

Can you find examples in English of this name "Qavam Pavilion" being used? None of this is about our feelings. Joojay (talk) 21:44, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

I referenced it some nine months ago, and I trust scholarly sources more than Wiki "experts." Term "Qavam House" can imply whole residential complex, including anderun (the private quarters of the family, to the west), as well as biruni which includes Qavam Pavilion at its northernmost edge. Thus, it's misleading. I have strong feelings about this case because I passed hundreds of images and corrected descriptions and categorization. Several years ago, one local "expert" (permanently banned, luckily) concluded that Qavam & Eram Garden are the same complex, so he made descriptions and categorization according to it. I don't want more chaos. --Orijentolog (talk) 22:02, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

P.S. @Joojay: there's yet another issue here, concerning both naming and registration. For example, the Eram Garden is registered and named on virtually all projects as Eram Garden, and most Wikis would refuse having separate articles about it's features like mansion, museum, botanic garden, etc. But there's no problem to have separate items for it on Wikidata, as well as separate categories on Commons (we even have columns, domes, and so on). On the other hand, Qavam Complex is registered as a building complex which encircles the garden, and naming on Wikis is inconsistent (some have garden in title, and some have house, despite the fact that latter is misleading, as I explained). Therefore I strongly refuse using Wiki titles as aliases. If you personally claim that in this particular case the garden is part of the building complex (not the other way around, as I organized it), you wouldn't be much wrong, considering they're of the similar size. However, I still have strong arguments against, since most sources treat complex as "Qavam/Narenjestan Garden" and all other Iranian garden cases are organized on the same way. --Orijentolog (talk) 22:33, 10 September 2021 (UTC)

P.P.S. Now I saw your questions here (I am not sure what happened? "Ghavam Maleki Court" might be a portion of the main house?), so let me answer it here. First of all, to explain physically how things stand, here we're speaking about one architectural complex consisted of two main parts. A complex as a whole is variously named, most often after the garden, although green garden is only a part of it. ArchNet properly calls it as Naranjistan or the Qavam residential complex, but non-professional sources such as news and travel websites (and English Wikipedia) indeed prefer shorter term "Qavam House" which is absurd. Anyway, two main parts of the complex are:

• anderun (lit. inner), the private area of the family. Basically, a house in the true sense of the word. Here it is: Zinat al-Molk House, another commons category, another Persian article, another Wikidata item. It even has a separate registration ID by national heritage institution, officially it is called as Bena-ye Anderun Zinat al-Molk (بنای اندرون زینت الملک) or lit. Inner building, but titling it as a house is perfectly fine.
• biruni (lit. outer), area with the function of receiving guests and serving as a place for reception and celebration. Technically, not a house. You can see nice floor plan (north=left) of it, or on satellite maps, from anderun it is separated by the alley and connected to it via an underground tunnel. The biruni area consists of several parts, including true garden, offices on the south side, ancillary buildings (kitchen & servant's rooms) on the east, and pavilion on the north. Officially, this area is registered under the name Emarat-e Divankhaneh Qavam Molk (عمارت دیوانخانه قوام ملکی), lit. Building of divankhaneh. That building would be a pavilion, as described by ArchNet.

I hope I made things more clear. Now here's the organization here:

• Zinat al-Molk House (Q5953299): undisputed category and Wikidata item about the family house, also known as anderun. Physically separated, also separately registered.
• Qavam Pavilion (Q5896629): here on Commons this category is only about the pavilion as an individual building, not about kitchen, offices, garden or anything else. There's also no problem with Wikidata and registration, despite the fact that as registered site it also includes all from biruni area.
• Qavam Garden (Q210171): first of all, this category stands for the whole complex, although Zinat al-Molk House can be excluded, so it means that mainly stands for biruni and it should contain subcategories of pavilion (exists), offices, ancillary buildings, entrance and so on (currently non-existent). Secondly, it also stands for the main garden, as its name suggests, so it should contain only images of garden.

That's the concept, and when you call the whole complex as "Qavam House," logic breaks down. --Orijentolog (talk) 12:40, 11 September 2021 (UTC)