Category talk:Praha-Strašnice zastávka

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    • The category name “Praha-Strašnice zastávka” is more suitable. The current category name is mistaken.
      • The right and full name of this train stop is “Praha-Strašnice zastávka”, not “Praha-Strašnice” (see http://www.cdrail.cz/gvd/k221.pdf). “Praha-Strašnice” is one other (freight) station in the neighbourhood.
      • Category of the subjects which have one official (or standing and expectable) name should be labelled by this original name, not by a translated name.
      • The Czech regulations and terminology make a basic difference between “tran station” (= „nádraží“ or „železniční stanice“) and “zastávka” (train stop). It is undesirable to abandon this difference.
      • Some of stations have one of the words “nádraží” or “zastávka” included in the official name of station, some haven't. In the cases that they have, it is redundant to add (this way) an English word.
      • In the category Train stations in the Czech Republic, category names with station name at the beginning are more common ("Cheb, tran station" instead of „Train station Cheb“). This way is more compatible with names of type “Praha hlavní nádraží” (Prague main station) or “Praha-Strašnice zastávka” (Prague-Strašnice train stop). The first of the pattern ("Cheb, train station") is preffered laterly (in case of such station that its name doesn't include the word “nádraží” or “zastávka”).
      • Before you try to uniformize the naming, it is necessary to discusse this idea and way of its implementation with more Czech users.
    • --ŠJů (talk) 11:28, 17 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
    • The current name is much more in line with the names in Category:Train stations in Prague and Category:Train stations in the Czech Republic than the name you propose. Commons naming rules state that the format is "item in xxx" in English. I have no problem with a flexible interpretation of that rule but saying that we should leave out the english part because it is redundant with a czech word that is understood by 0,0001 % of the Commons users is a bridge too far. So I suggest that you discuss the best solution and I will help you to implement it. --Foroa (talk) 13:11, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Train stations in Prague and Category:Train stations in the Czech Republic are names of categories, which we created here at Commons. Train stop “Praha-Strašnice zastávka” is a tangible entity, which has the officialy defined name (see http://www.cdrail.cz/gvd/k221.pdf). I haven't conceived this name: the railway operator has did it. If anybody from anywhere will want to search any street or any station somewhere abroad, he will use the authentic name, no any translation or modification. If the official authentic name is unambiguous, then an English explanatory word is redundant. --ŠJů (talk) 22:58, 19 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Despite the lack of support (afetr a campaign with Czech users), ŠJů moved the category anyway. Show his lack of Commons sense. --Foroa (talk) 06:52, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We can discuss further, how to unify category names of particular railway stations or stops. But it is absolutely unacceptable, that the category name does not contain the official name of the station: this is an obvious consensus (User talk:Miaow Miaow#Category names – Czech train stations). It is unacceptable tu use such category name, which is incorrect or ambiguous, of course. If you have ignored explicit official sources, the discussion with you was possible hardly: your invective that I am stubborn isn't a pragmatic argument. Therewithal the source of controversy could be your headstrongness or your unwillingness against a current use too. The unification is needed, but you must to look a consensus - no to assert your immature idea by force.
It would be possible to join the translation appendix at the end of category name as some explanation. I don't eliminate such a solution into the future, but I don't consider it as the best one. It is established to prefer an authentic original names of communities, settlements, companies, officialy named places (as stations or streets) etc., if the English exonym isn't spread or no exists. The explanation belongs into the description at the top of the category page, not into the category name. We should have a respect to current routine in some of most remarkable European no-english-speaking countries: see a content of the categories Hauptbahnhof, Train stations in Brandenburg or Train stations in Val-d'Oise as examples. Do you want change this established practices indeed? Have you well-considered and discussed this your idea? Are you alive to a whole incidence of your claims? --ŠJů (talk) 12:40, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The rule in commons is that a category is moved when there is a clear consensus and when the category name is in English (my interpretation of this is often: if it can be understood by someone coming from another language). You just renamed the category behind our back.
  • From the above mentioned discussion with user Miaow Miaow, it becomes clear that you need indeed a part of the name that corresponds to the official name and a part that says in an understandable way what it is. Nobody from the group came here to support your position (Czechish name only) that does not correspond with the outcome of the discusssion.
  • I suggest to look better in your examples of French and German names: Hauptbahnhof, Train stations in Brandenburg and Train stations in Val-d'Oise . Although I would not use it, anyone without even a clue of the German or French language can see at one glance what the "strange" subcategories mean. Have now a look into the parent categories of this category: Category:Railways in Strašnice, Category:U trati and surroudings (Strašnice), Strašnice zastávka, Category:Railway line 221 (Czech Republic), and only a happy few will understand what they mean, so going back to the English notation seems the only way to make it understandable. --Foroa (talk) 22:45, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The history of the deleted categories isn't accesible for me any more, but as far as I'm remembering - it was not me, who was renamed this category to unconsensual name as the first one, to an amiss one in addition. It was you, I think so.
My position is no "Czech names only", but "don't garble the official names". If the station is called officialy "Praha-Strašnice zastávka", it should not be trimed or half-translated wilfully.
Others arguments was told above: the proper names of places (if no any exonym is spread) have to be used in the original official form, not in ad hoc created translation-neologism, which isn't spread. The name of district "Strašnice" may be translated (or intepreted) as "Horrible-Town" or "Fear-Quarter", or historicaly as "Strašen's Village", but nobody uses such names.
It isn't a routine at Commons, to join any explanating English translation at the end of a proper name in original language.
Your explanation of distinction between Czech railway stations and German or French stations is queer. Of course, each one of stations from the categories Hauptbahnhof, Train stations in Brandenburg and Train stations in Val-d'Oise is included in other categories too (by city, region, railway line etc.). There is no distinction compared to Czech stations. If anybody wants to occupy by images of any Prague peripheral quarter, he must concern oneself in local language at least slightly. If anybody wants to occupy by images of German or French or Czech railways, he should know crucial terms as "Bahnhof", "Haltestelle", "S-Bahn", "Gare", "nádraží" or "zastávka". If he don't know them yet, he can understand them in ten seconds, if he isn't blockheaded. --ŠJů (talk) 04:33, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that you get my point. If you look in the referenced German or French cats, even when you never heard their word for station, you can deduce immediatly from the categories, the IW's and the regular structure of the categories what they mean. When looking into Category:Train stations in Prague, Category:Railways in Strašnice, Category:U trati and surroudings (Strašnice), Strašnice zastávka, Category:Railway line 221 (Czech Republic) it contains all sorts of naming formats and rules while you seem to have three or four different words for those items (and three different naming standards). Don't tell me that I can deduce the Czech keywords in less than 10 minutes by analysing the referenced categories. So if there cannot be a regular simple structure that allows visitors to learn them quickly, you have to expand the category names. But anyway, as it is now, it is not very nice. --Foroa (talk) 11:11, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If you look into the category Category:Train stations in Prague, it is simply expectable, that all its subcategories refer to train stations. Also in the category of the specific railway line is no difficult to understand, that every included subcategory refer to some railway object: a name of a station is telling enough, as well as in the category by city, region, district etc. (it does not matter whether in Czech or in French or German). In the case of geographical objects, an authentic proper noun it the first and the best way of apellation.
As I have wrritten already, an unification of names is needed. It is necessary to choose an optimal naming format for every type of station name. I will prepare a groundwork for such a discussion. But it don't accord with usual standard at Commons, that the official proper nouns of stations would be garbled, trimed or doubled by an added translation. --ŠJů (talk) 11:56, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Category:Train stations in Prague is a bit better, but you cannot guess the local words/names. Looking forward to your naming list. --Foroa (talk) 12:00, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
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