Category talk:Orientalist nude photographs of North Africans
"Bedouin" seems to have been used by the French for anyone living in colonial North Africa, including Berbers and non-Bedouin Arabs, so labelling these photos "Bedouins", which ha s a very specific meaning (nomadic Arabs), seems misleading. FunkMonk (talk) 16:09, 11 April 2017 (UTC) FunkMonk (talk) 16:09, 11 April 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks, FunkMonk, but I'm not sure I understand. Should the category be deleted (or renamed?) or are the photographs just misplaced? We already have Category:Orientalist nude photographs of Arabs, Category:Orientalist nude photographs of Berbers, Category:Orientalist nude photographs of Kabylie, Category:Orientalist nude photographs of Moors and Category:Orientalist nude photographs of Ouled Nails. - Themightyquill (talk) 07:28, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
- I think all of these categories are too specific, since we don't know whether they are accurate descriptions of the subjects ("Moors" is probably even more misleading today). I'm not sure why they couldn't all just be a redirect to something like "Orientalist nude photographs of North Africans", then we would be safe whatever they are. FunkMonk (talk) 11:07, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
- I see your point. That may explain why Cathy Richards removed Category:Orientalist nude photographs of Moors from Category:Moors (people). Haabet created most of these - ideally we'd hear from the creator before deleting them all. - Themightyquill (talk) 07:03, 13 April 2017 (UTC)
- I think all of these categories are too specific, since we don't know whether they are accurate descriptions of the subjects ("Moors" is probably even more misleading today). I'm not sure why they couldn't all just be a redirect to something like "Orientalist nude photographs of North Africans", then we would be safe whatever they are. FunkMonk (talk) 11:07, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
I do not know what to do with erroneous original captions. That is a very widespread problem. It was difficult and expensive to create new pictures, so you often found an old picture and renamed it as you would like a picture of. In addition, the problem is that the language changes. That research finds that a group is in reality two different groups. I do not know any solution. ---Haabet 18:04, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
- The solution would be to place them in a category named for their common denominator: North African ("Orientalist nude photographs of North Africans"). Then we're safe in any case, no need to be as specific as Bedouin/Arab/Kabyle/Berber etc. on such shaky grounds FunkMonk (talk) 18:56, 25 April 2017 (UTC)
- @FunkMonk: As a sub-category of Category:People of North Africa? It doesn't seem ideal, but it may be the best option we have. - Themightyquill (talk) 08:10, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- Probably, the less specific, the better. FunkMonk (talk) 13:09, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
- @FunkMonk: As a sub-category of Category:People of North Africa? It doesn't seem ideal, but it may be the best option we have. - Themightyquill (talk) 08:10, 8 July 2019 (UTC)
I don't want to say anything. 1. Because I can't French from 1900. 2. Because I can't know what these groups are called today in English. In many cases, the title is fictitious. A person should use a picture of something, then found a picture that could fit into the story.-Haabet 11:39, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- We know one thing; they were taken in North Africa. FunkMonk (talk) 11:57, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- There is only one of pictures that is not from Tunis City. -Haabet 13:26, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- In that case, we can make the categories specific to country (Bedouins can probably be ruled out entirely, as these are nomads, not city dwellers). FunkMonk (talk) 14:11, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- If the photographers etc. called themOrientalist nude photographs of Bedouins then it should retained as that is part of their history. However we could rename it Orientalist nude photographs of Bedouins (sic), take them out of any Bedouin categories as such and re-categorise as you suggest. Broichmore (talk) 18:36, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
- In that case, we can make the categories specific to country (Bedouins can probably be ruled out entirely, as these are nomads, not city dwellers). FunkMonk (talk) 14:11, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- There is only one of pictures that is not from Tunis City. -Haabet 13:26, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- We know one thing; they were taken in North Africa. FunkMonk (talk) 11:57, 10 July 2019 (UTC)
- I think it can be saved as part of their history, without actually naming a category that way. Even if we do keep a category with (sic), they should also be categorized by what actually is in the photo. - Themightyquill (talk) 10:18, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- To be clear a museum would not rename them, this is a period piece. As misguiding as the name is, this is how these pictures were known at the time of creation, the name represents the genre as described, then, in the late 19th and early 20th century; and written about in reference books of the past. At the time of creation the definition was a loose one, commonly used, tightened up in the modern age. The name as given here is also sympathetic with, and compatible with the other Orientalist images categories in Commons. The name is part of the subject's significance value and context of time. Best left alone. Our job is too curate history not revise it. Broichmore (talk) 14:47, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
- Okay, but as far as I can see, "Orientalist nude photographs of Bedouins" is neither the name of the source, the artist, nor the collection of photographs, which a museum or archive might use to catalogue them. It's something made up here on commons. - Themightyquill (talk) 10:57, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
- To be clear a museum would not rename them, this is a period piece. As misguiding as the name is, this is how these pictures were known at the time of creation, the name represents the genre as described, then, in the late 19th and early 20th century; and written about in reference books of the past. At the time of creation the definition was a loose one, commonly used, tightened up in the modern age. The name as given here is also sympathetic with, and compatible with the other Orientalist images categories in Commons. The name is part of the subject's significance value and context of time. Best left alone. Our job is too curate history not revise it. Broichmore (talk) 14:47, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
Stale discussion. Probably best is just 
Keep. In future, if someone wants to go deep with this nominated category and related categories, we can re-vitalize the discussion.--Estopedist1 (talk) 15:06, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
@FunkMonk, Themightyquill, Broichmore, and Estopedist1: Merged the categories to Category:Orientalist nude photographs of North Africans. --Sbb1413 (he) (talk • contribs • uploads) 07:11, 5 August 2024 (UTC)