Category talk:Monuments of Germany

Redundant cat

IMHO this cat is redundant to Category:Memorials of Germany. Both cats should be merged.
Diese Kategorie ist m.E. redundant zur Category:Memorials of Germany. Eine der beiden sollte gelöscht und der Inhalt in diese andere transferiert werden. -- Túrelio 12:52, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

 Oppose. Category:Monuments of Germany and Category:Memorials of Germany have not standard names (Standards are Monuments in LOCATION and Memorials in LOCATION). Therefore, they have to be renamed, but not as suggested.
Since memorials are a type of monuments which can be associated with a particular event, I think it's not pertinent to mix such categories, unless special reason is given (maintenance). --Juiced lemon 07:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Do you honestly believe that users, especially the uploaders, do and can really distinguish between Monuments of/in G. and Memorials of/in G.?
In regard to the in/of naming, I agree, proceed as suggested. -- Túrelio 08:40, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

So, you didn't give an accurate reason. The difference between monuments and memorials is the same in any area of the World, so you would have requested the merge between Category:Monuments and Category:Memorials, otherwise between Category:Monuments by country and Category:Memorials by country (that would include the merge of their subcategories).

These are important modifications, which deserve discussion in the village pump. --Juiced lemon 12:54, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

May be, but my target wasn't the category system per se. When I tried to categorize uncategorized images of other users, I found Category:Monuments in Germany, Category:Monuments of Germany and Category:Memorials of Germany, and even this nonsense Category:Memorials of Brandenburg. Both English words "memorial" and "monument" translate in German language to the same word "Denkmal", at least according to my dictionaries. That may be different in other languages. -- Túrelio 13:42, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

monument ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Latin monumentum, memorial, from monēre, to remind.

Obviously, we don't use the term “monument”, in Commons, according to its ethymologic meaning. That's why we use both “monument” and “memorial”, for any location in the World, Germany included. If a monument reminds you something or somebody, it's most probably a memorial. --Juiced lemon 15:03, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Last try before I give up. Is this Image:Arnold-boot.jpg, this Image:Monument to Stephen Foster.jpg, this Image:Edward Manning Bigelow monument in Schenley Park.JPG or this Image:BearRiverMassacreMonument.png a memorial or a monument according to the above described distinction? -- Túrelio 15:20, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

You are right: these pictures show memorials. However, their categorization is not so bad, since every memorial is a monument. In particular, the last picture, categorized in Category:Monuments in Idaho, is the single item which could be suitable in Category:Memorials in Idaho: so, it would not be a good idea to create a new category for this single picture. --Juiced lemon 15:51, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the trouble. This little field "study" confirms my suspicion that many users (me included) here don't understand or, at least, don't follow the distinction between mon. and mem. That doesn't necessarily mean that it should be abolished, but IMHO it shows the need for the community (or those interested in the category system) to do something to avoid this sort of confusion. Eventually an explanatory description (what is <type of images> or what should be placed here and what not) for each category-type and on every category-page (for this sort of cat) might help. Currently, I couldn't find any memo- or monu-cat that carries such an description. -- Túrelio 16:16, 4 June 2007 (UTC)