Category talk:Glories

The Brocken Spectre can appear without a glory. It is not a subphenomenon of glories. Both can appear at the same time, but the Brocken Spectre is just a kind of shadow. The Glory is something completely different. See the article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brocken_spectre --GerritR (talk) 13:13, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Ah, I should've thought about what the category relationship actually models before starting to 'fix' what looked like files that were simply overcategorized. Since the phenomena are indeed separate (and there do already exist images with only a Brocken spectre), isn't it better for Category:Brocken spectres to simply not be a child of Category:Glories? wqnvlz (talk | contribs) 17:32, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

On a related note, I think there are a few other cases worth going over:

1. Are shadows that are given context by recognizable objects behind them still Brocken specters?

Here, the shadow is constrained to a relatively normal appearance by the ground close behind it.

Here, the irregularities in the clouds make the size and extent of the shadow unambiguous.

1. I don't see the scheme for classifying aircraft shadows as Brocken spectres; the following images appear identical to me:

Categorized in [Glories] only

In [Brocken spectres] and [Shadows of aircraft]

In [Glories], [Brocken spectres], and [Aircraft in Brocken spectres]

1. Are shadows in general that aren't recognizably still humanoid Brocken spectres? I bring this up because some official definitions (e.g., Met office; downloads a PDF) state that the spectre occurs specifically when a shadow is confused for a human figure. Subcategories for non-humanoid shadows could work, I suppose.

wqnvlz (talk | contribs) 17:32, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes, the Brocken Spectre is not a child of the Category:Glories. There are many cases of coincidence of both, but they are physically not related (the only common thing is that they appear at the antisolar point). Rainbows and fog bows are also related to the antisolar point and are also not children of Category:Glories.--GerritR (talk) 17:53, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Brocken spectres are shadows on a non-solid and irregular medium like clouds, fog etc. (made of tiny water droplets). That's the reason for the coincidence with glories, because glories need tiny droplets to form. Shadows on a solid body (mountain, street, forest) or water (lakes etc) are no brocken spectres. But ordinary shadows also occur in the opposite of light sources, so regular shadows and glories often appear at the same time. Sometimes, you can see a glory, a brocken spectre and a regular shadow at the same time and in the same direction.--GerritR (talk) 18:01, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Aircrafts are just a little bigger than human observers (sitting in the aircraft). But the way the phenomena occur is the same. So an aircraft shadow can be categorized both as Brocken spectre and as Aircraft shadow, when it appears on a cloud layer AND the observer is inside the aircraft. Shadows of other aircraft are no Brocken spectres, because they are not related to the antisolar point.--GerritR (talk) 18:08, 15 January 2021 (UTC)