Category talk:Ferhat Tunç

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Güncel bir örnek verirsek, Kürtçe şarkılar söyleyen Ferhat Tunç, aslında Zaza'dır ve Kırmançı bilmez. (Mahmut Çetin, Kart-Kurt Sesleri). So Ferhat Tunç is a Kurdish-language singer, but he is not Kurdish singer. Takabeg (talk) 19:12, 12 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

What is the legitimacy of "Mahmut Çetin" regarding "Ferhat Tunc"? Did you buy and read this book? By the same recheche on "google books" but by typing "Kurdish singer Ferhat Tunç" there are more results!
What matters is how he sees himself (otherwise it is an endless subject):
I know some datails. For example, he said "Ben de Kürdüm (I'm also Kurd.)". But the term Kurd that he used is nothing but propagated (by Kurdish propaganda) propagated discourse and not an ethnic identity. He cannot original and real mother tongue and identity. As you know, although Kamran İnan is of a well-known Kurdish family, he denied his Kurdishness. But he is of ethnic Kurd and not of ethnic Turk with encyclopedic point of view. Vasıf Çınar was of a prominent Kurdish family, then he casted his Kurdishness away and became a Turkish nationalist. But he was of Kurd with encyclopedic point of view. Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu is of Zazas of Dersim, but he declared he was of Turcoman with his political consideration. But he is of Zaza of Dersim with encyclopedic point of view. Kamer Genç think themselves (Zazas of Dersim) ethnic Turk, he said that Zazas of Dersim are of Turk in connection with Ferhat Tunç's identity. Because he believes that Kurdish people should be Shafi'i. I think Kamer Genç's definition of ethnicity is very strange and wrong. In Dersim, Alevi Kurd (I use this term not as a tentative that was used by Bruinessen but for real Alevi Kurd) live as minority of the area. For example, Aynur Doğan is not Zaza of Dersim, but Kurd (I read yesterday her interview. She said that her family is not the native of Dersim and they are not Zaza but Kurd. Probably the interview was published in Esmer Dergisi. But now I cannot find that website, possibly I confuse her with another female singer.). As to Ferhat Tunç, his ethnic identity is Zaza. His mother tongue is Northern Zazaki (a.k.a. Kırmanjki). Possibly we can say that his political identity is a Kurdish one. But nobody change his/her/their original and real ethnic identity, unless he/she/they were assimilated to other ethnic group(s). Takabeg (talk) 00:53, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
1) It's about Ferhat Tunç here. If you want to discuss the origins of Zaza-Kurdish, see: en: Talk: Zaza people. You intentionally or unintentionally deflected the question. And I will not really go into this discussion because this is not the subject And I do not speak much English.
2) You draw your own conclusions from sources: this is the "orginal research". You assume that Kirmanc (Zaza) are not Kurdish (but you can not prove it). There is an error in your thinking from the start. And, you interpret the documents in this view and nothing else. Kirmanc are "not considered Kurdish" is a minority view and You can't ignore the others views.
Then, you accuse others of nationalists, yet your point of view is the same as the Turkish nationalists (this is not an accusation). Those who said that "the Kurds do not exist" now say Kirmanc (Zaza) are not Kurds (they exist sources to prove it). You can see the "Turkish Wikipedia" the behavior of users (users Azeris do also) to articles on the Kurds and Zaza: they became all at once the great defenders of Kirmanc (Zaza). And do not come telling me about the assimilation: Kurmanc villages are in the same state as the Kirmanc villages the only difference is that Kurmancs are more numerous. I try to make you understand is that you must take the Kurdish question in its entirety and geopolitical issues. You can not say Kirmanc are not Kurdish and it's over.
More, for some time, Kurmanc are perceived as "monsters", while Soran and Zazas are flattered by the Turkish nationlistes. There is an ulterior political motive to all that and you participate involuntarily. Before, these issues did not exist (even before the creation of the Turkish state).
Finally, if we say that Zazas (Kurdish speaking Kirmdancki / Kirdiki / Dimili) are not Kurds must also say that Kurmanc (Kurdish speaking Kurmanci), the Soran (Sorani-speaking Kurds) are not Kurds also (some say!). Who are the Kurds? I think that it is the people decide? That is why if Ferhat Tunç says he is Kurdish: he is Kurdish.
3) Returning to Ferhat Tunc: he sees himself as Kurdish: and reliable sources exist. Thank you not to remove the category.
(I used a multilingual machine-translation . I do not know if this is understandable...)--Ghybu (talk) 05:48, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Which sources are reliable sources ? If Category:Ideological Kurdish people and/or Category:Political Kurdish people can be permitted, solution would be easy. Takabeg (talk) 06:02, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As you know, however Kamer Genç claims that he is Turk, he cannot be a Turk in encyclopedic view. In the same way, however Ferhat Tunç claims that he is Kurd, he cannot be a Kurd in encyclopedic view. Both of them are Zazas of Dersim. Takabeg (talk) 06:07, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

There is no report! And there are independent sources of Ferhat Tunç--Ghybu (talk) 06:13, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately related articles in English Wikipedia are propagated and de-neutralized by Kurdish ethnocentrist users. Anyway WP articles themselves are not identifying reliable sources. An user pointed out "Kurdish is more of a political identity than anything that can be associated with linguistics, so the use is misleading." in Requests for comment/Rename of Kurdish Wikipedia. I don't think so, but if Kurdish ethnocentrists keep going at this rate, his/her claim on "Kurdish = political identity" will come true :)) Takabeg (talk) 06:21, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Remember: [1] / [2]:), [3], [4] Do you know them?--Ghybu (talk) 06:42, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I know them. The indisputable fact is that existing Kurdish Wikipedia is pushing its way to their ethnocentrism. But I don't think that this fact can be accepted as a valid reason of the closure of that project. You might read Nishanian's article, who had wrote the fact that Kurdish language and Zazaki language are completely different. He explained reactions of Kurdish ethnocentrists (maybe Kırds were included) to him in this article. Do you know typical tendencies of ethnocentrists ? They cannot accept other theses, except their ethnocentric theses and try to eliminate other theses. They cannot accept existence disputes like this. Takabeg (talk) 07:33, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
And now you speak of the Zazaki language: Up where will we go?(It is not a blog. The topic is "Ferahat Tunç"). I'm tired...
That's funny. I accept these differences and I does not deny the exitence of Zaza, Soran, Kurmanc or Kelhur! And nobody denies that. And your artice proves it. I watch with amusement the behavior of Turkish nationlistes cannot accept this kind of change.--Ghybu (talk) 13:21, 13 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
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