Category talk:Castor and Pollux

This category regards the Roman mythology. There are no reasons to confuse Roman deities with Greek deities, since Roman mythology IS NOT Greek mythology. More, pictures can be easily sorted between Roman mythology and Greek mythology.

Our work is to classify, not to mix up different subjects. --Juiced lemon 10:29, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but Castor and Pollux are primarily Greek heroes; they belong to Greek mythology and not to Roman mythology (there is no original Roman myth about them). Furthermore, there is no difference between the names "Castor and Pollux" and "Dioscuri", both can refer to Greek or Roman world (Dioscuri is the latinized form of Greek Dioskouroi).

In fact the situation is just like Category:Heracles. To get a better classification, it is possible to divide the temples in 2 parts, Greek and Roman ones. But there should be only one cat in Greek mythology for the heroes themselves. See Category:Dioscuri. Bibi Saint-Pol (sprechen) 17:56, 1 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I could call you “baby”, since “you were primarily a baby”. I let you assess the inanity of such reasoning. Castor and Pollux are Gemini, not Dioscuri. If you think that Category:Dioscuri is incorrectly named, rename it! but, stop to impair this category! --Juiced lemon 01:16, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

First of all, Castor and Pollux are Dioscuri in Roman world too; the temple in Rome is called "Tempio di Dioscuri". This is a non-sense to pretend that "Castor and Pollux" is a Roman name vs. "Dioscuri" which would be a Greek name: it doesn't work. Both refer to the same people, i.e. the Greek Castor and Pollux whose cult was introduced in Rome. So the point is: if you prefer the name "Castor and Pollux" rather than "Dioscuri", make a move, this is the same, I don't have any religion on this question! But don't create unconsistent cats with synonyme terms.

Secondly, the myth of the asterism (i.e. Castor and Pollux becoming the Gemini constellation) is a primarily Greek (first stated in Pindar). This is a non-sense to attribute it to the Roman culture only. Where do you pick such an idea?

Have a look to all Wikipedia articles which deal with them: there is one and only one article. And when there is a section about it, it just deals about cults. What is true is that the Greek and Roman cults of these heroes were specific; but neither mythes nor pictural depictions. This happens with dozens of Greek heroes who were venerated in Roman empire. Bibi Saint-Pol (sprechen) 17:19, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Dioscuri is the latinized form of Διόσκουροι, like Dioscures for the French language. The term primarily pointed the Ancient Greek heroes, then was also used for the Roman deities in the Ancient Roman culture. Therefore, this is essentially an ambiguous term, and we would not use it.

So, I prefer Castor and Pollux regarding to the Ancient Roman culture, Kastor and Polydeuces regarding to the Ancient Greek culture. And I don't rule out to separate the twins.

Concerning the constellation, I agree with you: it's a Greek creation. Unfortunately, we have kept the Latin names. As we categorize for readers, in order to allow them to find easily media files (not to teach something), the constellation have to be categorized in Category:Castor and Pollux (in particular). --Juiced lemon 18:14, 2 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

To make things clear: Greeks used as well Κάστωρ και Πολυδεύκης and Διόσκουροι; Romans used as well Castor et Pollux and Dioscuri; modern studies used as weel Castor and Pollux and Dioscuri. Never a term was prefered on the other, and never a difference between Greek/Roman culture was based on these. So having two different cats for Castor and Pollux and Dioscuri is like having two different cats for Phoebe and Hilaeira and Leucippids; or, if you prefer, have two different cat for Category:Dogs and Canis lupus vulgaris. Bibi Saint-Pol (sprechen) 20:02, 3 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Castor and Pollux in the Ancient Roman culture is a different subject than Kastor and Polydeuces in the Ancient Greek culture, as Allah is a different subject than Yahweh. It doesn't matter if you are not aware of any difference between Allah and Yahweh. Pictures of relics of ancient cultures are usually sorted according to their matching culture, and there is no valid reason to make exceptions for subjects which are related to Castor, Pollux, or to any other deity. --Juiced lemon 10:15, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I see: you assume it is stupid and unconvenient to use Castor and Pollux for Greek mythology. Bad news: you don't have to create new language usages. Castor and Pollux is a common usage in Greek mythology studies (do you pretend it is not?); Dioscuri is a common usage in Roman religion studies (do you pretend it is not?). Sorry, but you have to admit there is a problem and that your solution doesn't work. Bibi Saint-Pol (sprechen) 20:17, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Les Mythes grecs, a book by Robert Graves, is on my desk. The Greek heroes are named Castor and Pollux in the book. That's unambiguous, since the book deals only with Greek mythology. But, in Commons, we have to resolve the ambiguity, and therefore we are not required to use an ambiguous terminology. --Juiced lemon 21:35, 4 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand: you notice that Graves uses Castor and Pollux for Greek mythology (in fact you could find hundreds of mythology studies/Greek translations using these terms; recent universitary researches tend to use Kastor and Polydeukes, but that's partly an effet de mode and is not representative). Then you say we don't have to use an ambiguous terminology. Conclusion? (A is B and B is C) => (A is C) btw. Bibi Saint-Pol (sprechen) 20:45, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

“Castor” or “Pollux” in a monography about Greek mythology is not stupid, but incongruous, since these are Latin names. Here, the problem is to find 2 different names about these twins, one of them regarding to the Ancient Roman mythology, the other regarding to the Ancient Greek mythology. My proposal is:

Castor and Pollux
Kastor and Polydeuces (or Polydeukes- I have not checked the correct spelling)

If you want, you can propose alternative names. --Juiced lemon 22:30, 5 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Category talk:Castor and Pollux

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