File talk:Syrian, Iraqi, and Lebanese insurgencies.png

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Idlib update

Most other maps have HTS as their own colour (normally white) and every other rebel group (including HTS allies) as green. This map has HTS and their allies as white and only the, quote unquote, moderate rebels as green. Should we change this map to the former? After Turkey establishes the 6km safezone along the m4, I'm thinking of making this change. Nate Hooper (talk) 11:33, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Manbij

@TheHatingNerdino666: Hey buddy, thanks for the edit. But could I just ask why you gave the whole Manbij area to the SAA? What proofs do you have? Nate Hooper (talk) 01:23, 7 February 2020 (UTC)

Recent Updates 2-5 June 2017

According to Syrian War Map Maskanah has been retaken by SAA and Mansurah has been taken by the Kurds. Also, the entire region south of Palmyra and east of Qaryatayn has been cleared of ISIL by SAA. Also significant areas south of Sinjar in Iraq all the way to the border with Syria have been cleared of ISIL. Please update on the map, it is inacurate as it stands now.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 2607:FEA8:115F:F77F:21E:52FF:FEC8:B3DD (talk) 16:29, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

I've updated all of the frontlines. If you still don't see any changes, try refreshing your browser or clearing your browser cache. BlueHypercane761 (talk) 07:00, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

Turkish forces color addition

Since the addition and removal of a new color for Turkish-backed forces has been going on for far too long, I decided to start a discussion on the topic here. Clearly, red and its derivative colors can't be used, because red colors are currently used for Pro-Iran or Pro-Assad Government forces in this part of the globe. And because a shade of red is already being used for the Assad Government forces, using another red color for Turkish-backed rebels would make things far too confusing, not to mention complicated. I've currently added a new color, a medium Turqoise color, similar to the main rebel coloring and the color I've seen other mapmakers use for Turkish-backed rebel forces. However, here is the place to voice your opinions on the new color. Should it be added or not? I personally would prefer not to have a new color, given the complexity of this battle map, but I could allow a change, given the right reasons. If the consensus is against adding a new color, then I will revert the color addition and no one should be adding a new color for Turkish-backed forces anymore, to avoid more pointless edit wars. However, I will keep the new coloration if the consensus is another other than removing the new color. BlueHypercane761 (talk) 07:06, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I reverted the Turkish color addition. I will re-add it if there's actual consensus for its inclusion. BlueHypercane761 (talk) 23:43, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

I just uploaded a new map, and I have maintained the colour changes to the Turkish-backed forces. Drufft, please stop your edit-war, if you have disagreements, post it here. Nate Hooper (talk) 23:39, 14 October 2017 (UTC)

Please stop removing the Turkish Euphrates Shield color. Their removal is a clear POV Bias issue. Hezbollah has its own color in Lebanon even though Hezbollah's dominance in Bekaa Valley is not disputed nor is it without the consent of the Lebanese government. That is besides the fact there is no civil conflict in Lebanon to merit including it in this map. It would make more sense to include Turkey in the map since the PKK is operating there and is allied with Syrian and Iraqi Kurdish groups. There is a separate color for Syrian Kurdish groups and Iraqi Kurdish groups. I really would like to know where the Turkish forces are in Syria. It is not an arbitrary detail. Much less arbitrary than knowing that Hezbollah is popular in Dahiye. It is a messy and complicated civil war, there are going to be a lot of colors. Bulbasaur (talk) 23:01, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

There was another attempt to add a separate color for Turkish-controlled part of Syria. So far, these separate colors were always reverted, so I reverted that, too. I agree both with BlueHypercane761 that the map is complex enough already, and with Bulbasaur that Hezbollah is unrelated to the conflict. (So we maybe could remove even that blue?) --Šedý (talk) 09:41, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Map Source reliability

As discussed before on the English Wikipedia, most map sources are either unreliable or not very reliable. This is why we are not supposed to copy blindly off of other maps that we see. We are supposed to use reliable news articles or news releases, whether it is from an official media account of a ground combatant with a history of reliability, or a reliable news outlet. We can use the most reliable maps for general frontline referencing, however, as well as checking to see if we missed any substantial advances from one party. After a couple years of watching these wars and developing maps myself, I have to say that the map designed by Syrian Civil War Map is the most reliable out of them all, in general. Any map source that differs vastly is probably inaccurate. The thing to remember is this: if you're a map image or module editor, don't just copy and paste all changes you see in a map! (There are rules against this on pretty much every map module now.) If something looks suspicious (aside from current Wikipedia/Wikimedia map image revisions), always double-check with other sources. (Sometimes, the newest map revisions on Wikipedia/Wikimedia should be checked if they look very fishy.) The designer does make mistakes, though, and he is much slower on the Iraqi side of the conflict. If you want to use a map to keep track of the conflict, I personally suggest that you use SyrianCivilWarMap to do so, but please, please use other reliable sources as well. I'm saying this now to kill off any future discussions toward this direction, as they get pretty repetitive and are actually a waste of time. I've linked the map below, for anyone interested. BlueHypercane761 (talk) 07:24, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

• Syrian Civil War Map

External re-uses:

• https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Bruechige-Waffenruhe-im-Suedwesten-Syriens-3768977.html
• https://www.heise.de/tp/features/IS-Terroristen-ergeben-sich-massenhaft-Kurden-3853019.html

Map is not true

Please add al waer neighborhood in homs to syrian government control and delete 3 falses border crossings at the iraqi/syrian border Thibautfrench44 (talk) 22:14, 6 August 2017 (UTC)

Re: source for Sinjar / answer for Rob984

It was claimed by Iraq a few days ago and previous maps coloured the area maroon. I found this tweet (not the best source, but I remember seeing an article when it happened): https://twitter.com/abdullahawez/status/922377968290328576 I decided to post this in the discussion, because I didn't want to start an edit war, I'll leave it up to you to decide if you want to colour the area or not and I'll delete this section in a few days Nate Hooper (talk) 11:46, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Ping @BlueHypercane761, Bulbasaur, Knowledgekid87, MaksDrebotaUkr21, Nickjbor: (the recent users involved in coloring who aren't banned). Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 23:28, 25 October 2017 (UTC)

The tweet cites Rudaw which, while not the most reliable, is pro-Kurdish. But Sinjar itself isn't currently shown as controlled by YBS/PKK, only the areas to its west. I believe Mount Sinjar is also currently already shown as Iraqi controlled, although I can't find its exact coordinates to check. Rob984 (talk) 13:55, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Sinjar is controlled by Iraqi Government-affiliated militias. However, both Sinjar Mountain and the border region in question are controlled by the YBS/PKK, according to sources provided by other users at the Iraqi map module on Wikipedia. Given our current coloring policies, those areas should remain yellow. (Though I would personally change the yellow coloring to the one used for the SDF, due to the fact that the YBS has closer ties to the YPG than the Peshmerga.) BlueHypercane761 (talk) 11:58, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Edit warring

In case it isn't obvious, edit warring is unacceptable. Sockpuppeting to edit war is doubly unacceptable. I've now banned three separate people for sockpuppetry + edit warring.

If you are going to edit this page, please play by the rules, or you can expect your editing privileges to be taken. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 18:42, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Thoughts on Lebanon?

Just a quick question, what are people's thoughts on removing Lebanon from the map (colouring it light grey, the same as every other country apart from Iraq and Syria)? It's true that ISIL was operating in Lebanon a few months ago, but they have been defeated now. It will make the map less confusing and simplify it. Nate Hooper (talk) 02:13, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Edit warring, again

@LightandDark2000, Rob984: any further edit warring may result in this page being locked and/or a block. Please do not continue edit warring. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 17:39, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I just thought the turquoise blue colour was a bad visual choice so I changed it slightly and tweaked some other areas colours to contrast. Also I wanted to change the SDF to all yellow, in line with the module. But I agree with LightandDark that there needs to be consensus for any change. I notice the change at File:Syrian Civil War map.svg was only done recently so should probably be reverted as well. Rob984 (talk) 18:28, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

I should remain agnostic on the issue, since I am acting as administrator. But I expect that people will attempt to engage in dispute resolution on this and other pages. I absolutely do take into account who is willing to discuss in good faith, and who just blindly reverts. Magog the Ogre (talk) (contribs) 23:10, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Comment: The Ping/user mention feature is not always working on Commons. I just realized that recently. LightandDark2000 (talk) 09:23, 26 November 2017 (UTC)

Magog the Ogre used [[:User:LightandDark2000|LightandDark2000]], I'm guessing the colon suppresses the ping so you can link a user without doing so. Might have been accidental, or they assumed we are both watching the page, I'm not sure. Rob984 (talk) 03:54, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Colours of the map I

So I changed the colours to be consistent with the Syrian civil war map, with SDF as yellow (not yellow and green) and TFSA as white with blue background, and the latter only because someone else changed it to a turquoise blue colour making the markers invisible. Leaving aside the TFSA, can we not agree the SDF should be yellow? Associating the SDF with the Idlib FSA and southern front is bizarre. The yellow should be for the SDF as a whole, not just YPG. Rob984 (talk) 18:16, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

 Done Rob984 (talk) 03:55, 27 November 2017 (UTC)

Slightly updated version of the map

Hi all, I have uploaded a new version of the map, which I feel is slightly better in the following ways: 1. The colours are more clear and are easier to differentiate. 2. There are 1-pixel-thick border lines between areas controlled by different factions, which also makes the borders more clear. 3. There are slight corrections in the areas controlled by the Syrian government, surrounded by the SDF, as well as Turkish-controlled parts of Idlib. There is also more detail for cities like Aleppo and Damascus. The downside to point 2 is that it might be slightly harder to make future edits, but I think it is worth it. I don't want to force the change on anyone, so you can revert my edit if enough people don't like it. I just thought I'd add this discussion if anyone has any objections, or would like to give feedback. Nate Hooper (talk) 11:19, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Kifri is the wrong colour (it's controlled by Peshmerga). Otherwise it looks a lot more accurate. The new colours I'm not sure about though. I don't really notice any improvement. It seems like an unnecessary change honestly. Also what is the green area in the north of the Kurdistan Region of Iraq? And lastly, colouring the TFSA in differently from the rest of the rebels is controversial. Rob984 (talk) 14:23, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback, Rob. Some of the Iraq borders were a little out of date. I gave Kifri to the Peshmerga and removed the rebel areas in Northern Iraq (Turkish forces attacked last month, and took that land, but we weren't sure if they withdrew, I think giving it to the Kurds is the better option, given our uncertainty.) As for the Turkey colours, I'm happy to change it to being the same as the rebels if that's what others want, although I thought that debate was more about the fact that they used a bright cyan colour which stood out too much? Also, Turkish territory colour was still in the key at the bottom of the map, so I thought it'd be okay... Anyway, I left it for now, but I could change it in a minute if more people disagree. What do you think about the outline between the areas of control? I think it makes it look nicer but I know some might not like the fact that it could make editing slightly longer. Nate Hooper (talk) 16:38, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

I don't think that the new colors work at all. The frontline color could use some adjustment, but in the long run, if no one is actively maintaining it, it will probably become more of a hassle and should be dropped if that happens. LightandDark2000 (talk) 12:57, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

FYI, we agreed earlier (I think on the Wikipedia module talk page, at least) not to include the roads in the map images. Although they can be helpful, they tend to end up cluttering up the map even more and make updating the map a lot more troublesome (it's already difficult enough trying to implement large-scale changes to the map, or even making minor changes to some nearly-static frontlines). If you want to include the roads, please restore the original version first, and then upload a new file with the roads included. Thank you. LightandDark2000 (talk) 13:05, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the updates LightandDark. If those colours are what people prefer then that's fine with me. As for the frontline colours and the roads, I understand that they can be a hassle, but I would argue that they're worth it. If it is too much then we can change it back, but I really think we should just give it a try for a little bit of time. Nate Hooper (talk) 14:38, 18 February 2018 (UTC)

Colours of the map II

There is a colour on the North-East, North-West,a kind of green, which is not on the legend. --Io Herodotus (talk) 07:42, 28 February 2018 (UTC)

Do you mean in North East Idlib? The area covering two large towns, as well as a few pockets of smaller towns further West? If so then those are Turkish-controlled areas. They might look different to the colours in the Jarabalus and Al-Bab area because the dots are a darker green (due to the fact that they are directly controlled by Turkey), but they are in fact the same.Nate Hooper (talk) 01:39, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

I think I understand what happens; the colours vary upon the language. For instance English has 10 colours, French has 9. Danish has only 7, therefore depending on your language you will see something different! --Io Herodotus (talk) 04:32, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Yeah, and I made it more confusing for you by adding location dots and picture keys in English, sorry about that... Nate Hooper (talk) 15:03, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Some people changed the colours and added some colours, no problem with location dots. In the legend, I have changed that green, colour of the area controlled by Turkey, a darker green to match the map. Hopefully the legend is correct, this is for the English version, the French legend has been updated as well; but updating for the other languages needs to be done. --Io Herodotus (talk) 15:13, 8 March 2018 (UTC)

Colours of the map III

The new agreement will see a Turkish / rebel zone 30km deep from Tell Abyad to Ras al-Ayn. Which I think should be dark green / light green split (like most of it currently is). Outside of that, You have a 10km - 30km deep zone running along the rest of the border. I think that should just be red when it's confirmed that the SDF have left. Finally, you have the area up to 10km deep. It will be joint Turkish - Russian patrolled. What colour should this be? Purple or a red / dark green split? This is Nate btw, I'm having trouble logging in. @Dmsu: @Memy9909: @LightandDark2000: @LightandDark2000: 211.30.105.112 01:44, 26 October 2019 (UTC)

I'd say turn the Russian zone red, since Russia backs the Syrian Government, so the area will be under Syrian Government control to some extent (at least in principle). Russia is obviously going to be the dominant power in the area once the SDF withdraws. LightandDark2000 (talk) 23:28, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

inconsistent

see: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Syrian_Civil_War_map.svg

108.31.95.44 02:30, 1 January 2020 (UTC)