File talk:Semitic 1st AD.svg

 

South Semitic

That that the borders have to be more or less approximate is clear. I just doubt that Amharic can be dated so far back. It's not only a modern language; ancient Amhara region is said to have been conquered in the 9th century AD and Amharic language only became the royal language in 13th century AD, spread mainly in the 14th century with a lot of conquests under Gäbrä Mäsqäl ʿAmdä-Ṣiyon. One might rather consider to separate (the predecessor of) Modern South Arabian, which is presumably close to Ge'ez, and Old South Arabian, which is presumably more distinct from Ge'ez. Anyway might be termed South Arabian instead of Southern Arabic, to avoid confusion... --Aferghes (talk) 00:11, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for your remarks. I had a very vague idea of South Arabian and Ethiopic, could you give me more details on where were they distributed at the turn of the 1st millennium. I would appreciate it if you can provide references.--Rafy talk 13:19, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

The most recent publication on Semitic Languages including South Semitic I know is Stefan Weninger (ed.), The Semitic Languages An International Handbook, De Gruyter 2011, ISBN 978-3-11-018613-0.

On the question that Modern South Arabian might be closer to Ethiosemitic than Epgraphic (or Old) South Arabian cf. The Semitic Languages (2011), p. 1116: "This would leave MSA and ES as a sort of ‘core’ South-Semitic. And indeed, as Müller (1964) has already argued, these two groups share many features:".

On the division North Ethio-Semitic (Geez) vs. South Ethio-Semitic (Prdecessor of Amharic) cf. also doubts in: Rainer Voigt, North vs. South Ethiopian Semitic. I.: S. Ege et al. (eds.). Proceedings of the 16th International, 2009 in: Conference of Ethiopian Studies, vol. IV (Trondheim: NTNU-tryck), 1375-1387, online http://portal.svt.ntnu.no/sites/ices16/Proceedings/Forms/AllItems.aspx .

The Ethiosemtic Languagages were probably the Northern Part, i.e. the Geez part. My assumption that the Southern regions are probably later is based on historic sources that these areas were only much later conquered; cf. e.g. Taddese Tamrat Church and State in Ethiopia 1270-1527, p. 35 (Amhara in 9th century), p. 119ff. (further territorial expansion from 1270)

--Aferghes (talk) 15:56, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

There is a map on Ethiosemitic Languages (p. 1123) and on MSA (p. 1078) in Stefan Weninger (ed.), The Semitic Languages (2011), but the maps are of course of today (and not of 1st century AD). Generally MSA is east between today Yemen and Oman, and on the island of Soqotra.

--Aferghes (talk) 16:42, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the long delay. I have done the following:

• Renamed Southern Arabic to Old South Arabian.
• Removed Amharic.
• Split MSA and merged it with Ge'ez under the name South Semitic.

Is there any evidence that suggests that MSA predates Ge'ez and other Ethiopic Semitic languages or was a migration the other way around?--Rafy (talk) 16:43, 18 February 2013 (UTC)