File talk:Old EHT bottle.jpg

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Permission[edit]

Discussion below was split from User_talk:Green_Giant

Hi, I was wondering what was the problem with File:Old_EHT_bottle.jpg. Ellin Beltz tagged this as "no permission" and you deleted it. The author sent us at ticket:2014101510014261 and Jcb undeleted it. However, I don't see what was the problem nor the need for an OTRS tag. whym (talk) 08:58, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

I agree that on the face of it, such an image doesn't need OTRS and I wouldn't have tagged it myself. However, when I read the related email it seemed to me there was uncertainty about authorship; in particular the green sentences and the bottom part of the email suggest that the uploader might not be the same person as the copyright holder. It appears from the bottom part that the uploader sent an email to the author(s) after reading Ellin's notification. The fact that one of them then sent a license suggests to me that the uploader was wrong to claim it as own work. I'm not sure why I didn't add a note at OTRS but I would want to know which of them is User:Brbngurl. Green Giant (talk) 09:58, 4 November 2014 (UTC)
The image was stated to be own work and was not. Hence the tag and deletion. When the picture disappeared, the uploader apparently emailed the author(s) who sent OTRS form and image was restored. I can't claim the Mona Lisa as own work and have it stay on Commons !! Cheers! Ellin Beltz (talk) 19:13, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

(I have copied the discussion above from Green Giant's talk page. I hope Green Giant and Ellin Beltz don't mind.) @Ellin Beltz: I was trying to see if there are remaining problems with this file. I understand the general rationale for tagging, but I still don't know what made you think that this particular photograph might not be their work, and thus I don't know if the problem (if any) is solved. Did you see the photograph being published elsewhere under a different attribution or license? Did you perhaps mean that the label was not their work? I'm asking this because it might mean that we have to ask more information/evidence from the uploader(s). whym (talk) 02:24, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On a separate note, I think Green Giant' concern is a valid one, but I'd rather consider that (at least in their view) this is a joint work of theirs. (by the wording we took this picture and we uploaded in their emails.) In the case of photography with intentional setup like this, if two people jointly set up an arrangement of subjects to be photographed, then I believe the one who didn't push the button can also be considered to contribute to the creative expression. (In the OTRS ticket we received permission from at least of one them, and the other (albeit implicitly) appeared fine with it.) I'm inclined to think that they want to be credited jointly under a pseudonym, which is totally fine. We could get into the strictness of requiring releases from all who might be considered joint authors, but I feel that is excessive in this case. whym (talk) 02:24, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

@Brbngurl: because we need some input from them. Whym agree that if one of them has licensed it then it isn't always necessary to chase up the other author. However, my reading of the ticket was that it had three parts. The top part is the license, the middle part appears to be a message from one author to the other, and the third part appears to be a message from the uploader to the authors. To me that suggests that the uploader may not be one of the authors and the claim of own work was not valid. Green Giant (talk) 13:48, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Label[edit]

For me, the only concern regarding copyright is the label - is this old enough or simple enough to be public domain? whym (talk) 02:24, 8 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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