File talk:Chan Chun Sing at the We Welcome Families Awards Ceremony - 20130425 (cropped).jpg

A bit of history...

The following is copied from http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Graphic_Lab/Photography_workshop#Chan_Chun_Sing:

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Chan Chun Sing

Resolved— Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 13:14, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

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  Infobox image

Article(s): Chan Chun Sing, Third Lee Hsien Loong Cabinet

Request:

I realize this isn't a very good photograph but it's the only free one we have right now. Can the colour be made more natural? — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 19:14, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

Graphist opinion(s): Request taken by --Kevjonesin (talk) 20:22, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

 made some improvement. --Kevjonesin (talk) 21:32, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

That's great. Thanks! — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 06:24, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The following was moved from en:User talk:Centpacrr:

Your version of 06:11, 13 June 2013 is an improvement over your last version, but you leave/introduce odd color issues. There is purple in the ceiling and the floor, the plants are a strange blue-green and the black appliance on the floor has a significant purplish hue. At the moment I believe my version is the superior to Kevjonesin's or either of yours, but I will hold off on reverting yet again and give you a chance to make improvements. If you're going to upload additional versions, please do the courtesy of uploading a version that is at least equal in quality to what is there already. – JBarta (talk) 06:33, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I would also point out the previously reddish-purple flowers are now grayish green. – JBarta (talk) 06:43, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The subject of this image is Chan Chun Sing, and his face and hands in both your and Kevjonesin's versions are deeply off color and nowhere near to natural skin tone. The room and the stage on which he is speaking are clearly not being illuminated with white light, and in fact the "black appliance" on the floor is a Tango 700 multi-color stage lighting instrument which is providing some of the colored light being reflected by the plant and the rest of the room. The room is also clearly intended to be fairly dark to enable video of the subject giving the speech to be projected on a screen behind him.

You reverted my previous edit because you said it had too much of a magenta hue which I desaturated. While the plant and other things in the room are still not going to look the same in colored light as they would in white light, none of these things are the subject of the image either. There is no way that a room illuminated by colored light is going to look the same as if it were illuminated by white light not should it. The subject is the speaker, Mr. Chan, and therefore it is the color of his skin that should look correct. Also please notice that the full size awards ceremony image is also not being used anywhere in WP, but is instead just as the source of the detail of the speaker which is being used as an infobox image for the article about him.

For all of these reasons I find that the two versions I uploaded are not inferior as you say, but are in fact the superior ones because the more accurately depict what the subject of the illustration (Chan Chun Sing) looks like. The OP apparently also agrees with this because shortly after I uploaded these new versions of the images he marked the request "resolved". Centpacrr (talk) 07:27, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

As usual, instead of addressing the problem, you just spew forth assorted nonsense. I'm going to revert again to the more normally color corrected image. I have no objection to someone improving on my edit or uploading a superior version. It can be done and I welcome it. But don't upload badly done work and try to convince me it's supposed to look that way. – JBarta (talk) 07:50, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I will say this, the face color in mine can certainly be colored better (I didn't do any region-specific coloring). In that, yours may be an improvement. But let's not color the face while trashing the rest of the image. – JBarta (talk) 07:58, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

As I pointed out above a room illuminated with colored lights is not going to look the same as a room illuminated with white light and there is no way to make it look so. The subject of the image, however, is Mr. Chan. That's what people are looking at and should be made to look natural. The photograph also appears to have been taken way out of temperature (white balance) which is an additional issue. So why don't you make the rest of the picture the way you like it and when you have done so I will take care of the skin tones. Centpacrr (talk) 08:23, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

You're just assuming the room was flooded with magenta lighting. The bad color probably has more to do with the way the camera took the picture than the lighting in the room at the time. At any rate, what's most important is a natural and realistic hue to the entire shot.. and not introducing even more color issues in the process. As far as the face color, yes, mine is as the camera took it (less overall color adjustments). It's not all that bad, but some subtle color could be added. Your coloring is a little over-done in my opinion, but generally on the right track. – JBarta (talk) 08:31, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I truly don't what it takes to please you, but if you want him purple I guess that's just the way it's going to be. It's all yours now. Centpacrr (talk) 08:54, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Now you've resized the original for no particular reason. I reverted that. Your compromise on the face color is fine, but there is no need to resize the image. If you wish to resize the head crop I have little objection. Also, as I said, I thought your face coloring was overdone. I would be happy to see the face toned up a bit if you wish... but subtly. The face color should also fit into the whole image and not be reminiscient of an oompa-loompa. – JBarta (talk) 08:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I've contributed four versions and you've reverted them all in favor of yours with the subject having purple skin so it looks like that's the way it's going to stay. Centpacrr (talk) 09:41, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Why did you resize the original image in your last edit? Why did you not meet me halfway on the face coloring? – JBarta (talk) 10:17, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I apparently resized the image by 12 pixels from 612x612 to 600x600 when I saved my last edit. This was inadvertent and I don't know how it happened, but 2% also seems to me to be an insignificant change and does not in any way diminish the image. I also desaturated the skin tone from my original toning and find my last version not only perfectly acceptable but even a little washed out. (Perhaps you need to check the calibration of your monitor if it looks too saturated for your taste.) As I noted above, however, I have now uploaded four different versions and you have reverted them all to your purple skin version. Since I have been unable to please you with any of them even though the OP apparently approved of my original version by marking his request resolved after I posted it (you appear to have been reverted that as well), my uploading of a fifth version seems likely to meet the same fate. So unless somebody else comes along, it looks like your purple skin tone version of Mr. Chan stands. Centpacrr (talk) 11:15, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

You don't know how the resize happened? Just an innocent accident? I feel ya... accidental resizing happens all the time ;-) Well, look on the bright side... it gives you cause to stomp your feet and say I can never be pleased. – JBarta (talk) 11:26, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Why would I or anyone intentionally resize an image by only 2%? But again, sir or madame, you have completely missed the point. As a courtesy to the OP, however, I have uploaded a larger natural skin tone "infobox" version of the image of Mr. Chan to Commons as a new separate file so that the requester has the option to pick which one he likes better. (I have not uploaded a new full size version as that image is not being used anywhere in WP so it seems unnecessary.) Hopefully this will end this latest adventure into WP omphaloskepsis. Centpacrr (talk) 11:40, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

That's a good question.... why would anyone intentionally resize the image? Only the person resizing it would know for sure. Since you seem to have given up on a compromise over the face coloring, maybe I'll give it look myself. – JBarta (talk) 11:53, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh, wow, I'm flattered that so much attention is being paid to this photograph. Personally, I prefer the version with the redder skin tone because it (perhaps paradoxically) looks more realistic, but I appreciate the efforts to remain true to the original photograph and the circumstances in which it was taken. I guess having two versions of the photograph is a good compromise. Thanks again all round. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 12:04, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

By the way, I don't suppose you work on illustrations, do you? I've got an outstanding request over at "Commons:Graphic Lab/Illustration workshop#Coat of arms of Malaysia (1963-1965).jpg". — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 12:08, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Whichever version you prefer, Jacklee, is fine with me. As the OP requester, you are the final judge of what works best for you. Both images will always be available for however you may want to use either or both. The newer version is a bit larger than the other and is perfectly square (260x260). Despite all the niggling among the editors, everyone in here is trying to do their best. And now I am heading for the cellar as there is a monster line of thunderstorms heading this way with wicked wind, lots of lightning, hail, and even possible tornadoes. Centpacrr (talk) 12:16, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Storm came through here earlier. Hail like friggin bowling balls.... – JBarta (talk) 12:35, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Whoops, take care. — Cheers, JackLee ^–talk– 13:14, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

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Above inserted by: --Kevjonesin (talk) 14:06, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Regarding overwriting versions not derived from Jacklee's 15:05, 12 June 2013 original crop version

Please, do not overwrite files with images extracted from the same source but cropped to different scale and/or aspect ratio. Upload them under a new filename, please.

--Kevjonesin (talk) 14:06, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

The rest of version 09:48, 13 June 2013's truncated upload summary:

First the existing bit in the File history:

Warmed up a bit by layering transparencies based on version_ 08:22,_13_June_2013 and version_17:25,_12_June_2013. Also addressed mismatched color on the two sides of the suit. I would have liked to have incorporated some of version_02:24,_13_June_201[3]...

...but the editor had not seen fit to derive his image from Jacklee's original file uploaded under this filename (Chan Chun Sing at the We Welcome Families Awards Ceremony - 20130425 (cropped).jpg). Hence, nothing lined up. Please, upload files extracted from a shared source (but cropped to a different scale and/or aspect ratio) under their own filename. --Kevjonesin (talk) 14:13, 13 June 2013 (UTC)