File talk:Card puncher - NARA - 513295.jpg

Why is this listed as "circa 1890"? The woman's fashion and hair style looks decades later, and the NARA caption only places it somewhere in the vague range of 1890-1950. Seems very wrong to me. -- Infrogmation (talk) 21:18, 12 May 2012 (UTC)

I didn't add this information [1]. Actually I also was thinking about getting a more precise date. From the woman's fashion and hair style, what do you suggest? Yann (talk) 14:30, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

• It contains a picture of a census form (and although she is shown entering data, the page she's looking at obscures any of the census data lines that she should be entering ;-). Well census every 10 years so a choice of 1890, 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940, 1950. No link for the 1890 or 1950 version, found the 1950 version in a PDF but a rather different layout. Basically this one is a variant of the 1940 form, slightly different layout (eg the page number box extends further), but circa 1940 should be about right. --Tony Wills (talk) 12:01, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

The smudgyness of the printed text on the far end of the form makes me think it was air-brushed out. --Tony Wills (talk) 12:12, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Kudos, Tony Wills. (And the first generation of census card punch machines had a different more "Victorian" look 1890 illustration via [2], and I believe they started using electronic tabulators for the 1950.) From fashion I was going to say 1930s - 1940s; looks like 1940 is most likely. -- Infrogmation (talk) 21:09, 15 May 2012 (UTC)

Interesting, the second link [3], has a number of card punch machines nearer the bottom of the page. The first link you gave shows a tabulator/card reader and direct entry keyboard, not a card punch. The card punch shown in our picture looks much more like the style of the 1890s card punch (hanging on the wall or [4]). I expect the photo was totally staged, just set up in an office somewhere, as I would have expected to see rows and rows of card punch operators otherwise (a big job for one person ;-). And of course they could have used an old punch to transcribe modern forms if the cards were still the same. --Tony Wills (talk) 02:24, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

Thanks. The possibility had occurred to me to wonder if the staged photo might have deliberately used some machinery that was on the archaic side at the time. Anyway, between your comments on the cards and some feedback I've gotten from a couple people up on hair fashion history (c. late 1930 to WWII era was the consensus) I'm changing the description to "circa 1940". -- Infrogmation (talk) 00:07, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

This style card punch (pantograph), initially used for the 1890 census, "was still in use as late as 1920" (Truesdell p.44). The photo carries the date "Created: 31 December 1919". The keyboard layout in the photo matches the 1920 population card (Truesdell p.144). There is no reason to think the photo is other than what it appears to be: a 1919 photograph of an individual taken prior to the start of the 1920 census. What the purpose was is not known here. There is another photo (in the same group of photos) with this women and another. I'll change the description to 1919 (if I can). 73.71.159.231 04:51, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

(Eckler between p.80, p.81) has another photo of the same setup - looking over her shoulder at the pantograph. Hands are in their same positions. Text "The 1890 pantograph punch was used, with improvements, through the 1920 census". These are 1919 photos taken with deliberate (now unknown) purpose. 73.71.159.231 05:49, 18 April 2016 (UTC)

If you zoom in on the rolled census form, you can see the layout and some of the text at the top of the page. It matches (only) the 1940 census. So as Tony Wills said, the photo must be ca. 1940, though I suspect she is using a much older card punch. Mediamation (talk)

I just uploaded another image File:Census pantograph and 1930s keypunches.jpg which shows the same woman at a pantograph punch along with another woman at a "1930s keypunch". So I agree the subject image must have been taken the late 1930s or 1940s. Another file from the Census File:Census man using pantograph punch c. 1908.jpg appears to be from the era.--agr (talk) 04:01, 18 July 2017 (UTC)