Commons:Featured picture candidates/File:Tribu Lopit, Imehejek, Sudán del Sur, 2024-01-22, DD 36.jpg

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File:Tribu Lopit, Imehejek, Sudán del Sur, 2024-01-22, DD 36.jpg, featured[edit]

Voting period is over. Please don't add any new votes.Voting period ends on 18 Mar 2024 at 12:55:27 (UTC)
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Lopit Tribe, Imehejek, South Sudan
  • At least you confirm it's a musical instrument!🎵 Thanks. Very special shape, like a shell. One of the owners, smiling, seems to be proud to wear a different version with multiple copies of reduced size, in the same material. Probably not a very widespread instrument. Perhaps even an own invention? A professional musician would help us here, to find :-) "Ekpande" or bell relative? -- Basile Morin (talk) 04:15, 14 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Comment This, and many photos from similar packaged photo trips, feels very 19th century to me. They give me mixed feelings about how these people are portrayed. Yes, I understand that this is a source of income for a lot of people who can display colorful and photogenic traditions in some way, be it dressing, dancing, fishing or whatever. But it feels creepy and dated. I would much rather feature photos from Wiki Loves Folklore. Looking through the lens of a local, makes the subjects and people appear very differently. The looks that the men in this photo gives the photographer, are eerily similar to what you can see in photos from colonial times. WLF is a lot of images to sift through, but there is a shortcut: Aristeas (one of the people doing grunt-work for WLF) has collected nice photos on subpages of his while he has categorized such photos. Take a look. --Cart (talk) 14:39, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you for your comment, Cart. To help interested readers: my (very subjective) selection of interesting WLF photos encompasses the subpages WLF 2020, WLF 2021, WLF 2022, WLF 2023 and (work in progress) WLF 2024. Some of the very best photos (partially already nominated for FP) are on the extract page WLF FPC. Of course these lists also include tourist photographs, but between them you will find uncommon and authentic photographs taken by locals. Many of them are mostly important because of their educational value (documenting the local cuisine, clothing, arts and crafts, rituals and traditions), but some of them are also photographic gems. Happy browsing! :–) --Aristeas (talk) 15:03, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cart: Not sure what I should answer to that. I added the WLF template because I realized that the picture fulfills the contest criteria. Whether this candidate is a good one for the WLF contest I'd leave in the hands of the WLF jury. I'm just nominating this image to FP. These tribes have contact to white people 2 or 3 times a year and that's maybe why things look the same way, they looked 150 years ago. These men were proud and happy to get dressed-up and show themselves. It was a celebration where the whole village was involved and enjoyed. In fact they don't get any reward individually, the monyomiji or ruler in the village does, and he distributes it among all families. I have taken many different kind of photos in different villages in South Sudan, I hope there is something among them you don't dislike. Poco a poco (talk) 15:34, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Cart: IMO it doesn't matter who took the picture. What does matter is: Are the costumes genuine? Do they wear these regularly, or are they just something like a carnival for tourists? Yann (talk) 17:01, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Naturally, these people are free to host tourists and make a living of the income they bring them, just like so many other countries do, but to portray them just like the "Great White Explorers" did during colonial times feels iffy to me. I thought we were beyond that. Like Yann implies, a very skilled visiting photographer can get the same sort of good photos a local can, photos that feels contemporary authentic in some way, but this is not one of them. --Cart (talk) 17:40, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I have to agree with Cart that this image just like your last successful nominations and more that I saw on the QI page make me feel very uncomfortable for the reasons named. Kritzolina (talk) 19:49, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support But we don’t want to spoil your nomination, Poco. This is a very nice group portrait, and if posing for photographs helps the inhabitants of South Sudan (a very poor country and always endangered by the thirst for conquest of the conflicting rulers in (north) Sudan), all the better. --Aristeas (talk) 15:32, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thank you! I want to believe that, our guides came from this area, they and the people living in these villages don't have many other income sources. The level of poverty in this part of the world is shocking, but still people are very friendly and you have the impression they are happy. Poco a poco (talk) 15:38, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sorry but I had to strike out my vote. Basile’s bold comment has opened my eyes (ex negativo). Now I understand that Cart and Kritzolina are right. --Aristeas (talk) 08:58, 10 March 2024 (UTC) – Striking out my comment to avoid useless discussions. --Aristeas (talk) 08:17, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support In 15 years, another photographer (or the same) will visit again and bring these pictures to the village. Families may be very happy and grateful to recognize their ancestors wearing their traditional clothes!
We're not here to judge the people on their skin colors. What does it change if the photographer has white, brown, yellow, coffee or porcelain skin? The pejorative comparison to "the "Great White Explorers"" breaks the Wikimedia Foundation Non-Discrimination Policy and could place the photographer in a very embarrassing situation. There are not thousands ways to photograph a group. Some of them are crouching in the foreground to make room for others behind. Universal.
I find these timeless ceremonial outfits, made of shells and local crafts, much more precious wonders than expensive jewelry. The colored patterns painted on the faces and body with natural pigments are also impressive -- Basile Morin (talk) 03:40, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Side point, but I wouldn't assume these are timeless outfits. The only thing I know is that they wear them now, and I suppose they're being presented as traditional, but of course traditions change and are not necessarily age-old. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:39, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
You're right. Thanks. English is not my mother tongue, I meant "eternal" or "with no age", because I admired in the Museum of Quai Branly similar objects, though centuries old -- Basile Morin (talk) 02:39, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
OK, you may know more about the history of Lopit clothing than I do (which is nothing). -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:23, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
More intrigued than expert, but I can say without reservation that this is not Fast fashion :-) Basile Morin (talk) 08:09, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support The merits of a photograph do not depend on the photographer's skin colour, and this image in no way hinders the locals' ability to document their own culture. I too find the throwback to the "great white explorers" inappropriate, and thank Diego for making his documentary work available to all for free. Diego, on more prosaic matters: there's a bit of chromatic aberration on the sticks that should be easy to get rid of. --Julesvernex2 (talk) 09:09, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • ✓ Done, thank you, Jules, Poco a poco (talk) 09:24, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Portrait photography is always an interaction between the photographer and the person(s) being photographed. It matters greatly if they know each other, have some sort of connection (be it nationality, gender or skin color), or are complete strangers. It always affects how the photo will turn out. --Cart (talk) 09:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Indeed, and one can make similar arguments about many genres of photography. But that’s not the point. Here, and probably everywhere else, a photograph should be judged on its achievements alone, putting aside anything about the photographer. —-Julesvernex2 (talk) 10:13, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't said anything about the photographer here. Please actually read what I have written. I was referring to the style of the photograph, and IMO the style of this photograph is colonial. An essay on the subject. --Cart (talk) 10:31, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If that’s the direction you want to take this I have nothing to add, take care! —-Julesvernex2 (talk) 10:46, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
"Great White Explorers" and "Colonial style" are denigrating qualifiers that should be avoided -- Basile Morin (talk) 11:09, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Probably not, and it shows in the closed, guarded and detached looks most of them present in the photos. Please compare with the open and interesting portraits you get when someone photographs people they live among. Like the great people photos of this photographer. --Cart (talk) 12:55, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This particular place is difficult to reach. Clothes and handmade jewelries are very special. It's not easy to see that in the world. Distance, but also accommodation, food, climate, language, communication, culture differences, etc. Overcoming all these barriers is not easy. The sophistication of these art objects is often displayed in big city museums, but the difference here is that they are displayed authentically, on people from the group that usually wears them. This is what produces the richness of this photograph, from my point of view -- Basile Morin (talk) 01:38, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Do you really believe that those people still wear these items outside of shows for tourists? Kritzolina (talk) 08:50, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Did you really go there, like Diego?
But listen. I live in a country with Hmong people. You know? Do they really wear Hmong clothes? Answer: yes. Everyday -- Basile Morin (talk) 09:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No, you know I did not go there. But I have friends from so called "tribals", or better said indigenous groups. I know they do wear some things as everyday items, but not this kind of full regalia. And I have a pretty good idea what they would think of this kind of pictures. Kritzolina (talk) 12:36, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, many cultures have types of formal clothing that are not worn every day, including wedding gowns. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:49, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And I think you know this is not what I mean. These clothes are worn completely out of their context to allow a white person to take pictures. A person that did not even communicate enough with the people in the group to find out about some of the more interesting pieces of the regalia, like what is attached to their legs. Kritzolina (talk) 17:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
True. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:42, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. Not true, I think. And fortunately. These people are not stupid. It might have been a real event to welcome visitors from far away, yes. A change in their everyday life. And a great ceremony.
  2. Where do these clothes come from? Bought at H&M or handmade with cultural heritage to be used in real life, like here? -- Basile Morin (talk) 02:27, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes true. We aren't provided with any information or context about the clothes or their use, just this picture - though the picture is striking and valuable in itself, and we should hope that someone who knows more about this tribe's culture will add such information later. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:50, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  1. The more you study, the more you learn :-) From the website 101 Last Tribes for example (nonprofit project helped by a team of anthropologists and photographers who are passionate about Africa’s tribal diversity), you'll find at least 11 pictures of similar shell helmets (click on "Photo gallery" at the top, see number 79, 80, 86, 89, 94, 96, 101, 103, 109, 116, and 117).
  2. Read also the sections "Culture: Arts, Music, Literature and Handicraft" and "Music and dance" on the same page: "Music and dancing are central to Lopit culture. There are different dances for different occasions. Each dance has specific costumes, music, at time allocations associated with it. Drums are an important part of the dances."
  3. Watch this youtube video and this dancing ceremony with similar costumes made of shells and feathers to understand that these people wear these clothes for specific events, yes, to dance and enjoy life together, and not "because of a white photographer". These costumes are authentic, of course. They have a history. Pretend the opposite (e.g. "Do you really believe that those people still wear these items outside of shows for tourists?") appears completely wrong. Another show with true costumes and the arm of a white photographer at 40 seconds seems eloquent to me.
  4. Do you know more about this musical instrument tied to the calf? There are dozens of dances with costumes in this tribe, Bura, Ikanga, Rongit, Hitobok, etc.
  5. They live in isolated places. Don't expect to receive faxes or emails from them. Or it would be like asking Chinese or Russians living in America what they think about their home countries. The answer would be far, even opposite to the locals'.
  6. Something is certain: they allowed the photographer to take the picture. They obviously posed for this photo. See this behavior as a generous gift, an act of communication, and a touching mark of hospitality -- Basile Morin (talk) 03:58, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    You did excellent research! You can greatly increase the educational value of the photo by adding it (or the most relevant things) to the file description. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:40, 16 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
A friend of mine has a tribal friend, too, who lives in France after her PhD in Harvard University :-) Basile Morin (talk) 02:06, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And what is the connection to this discussion here? Why do you mention this fact? Kritzolina (talk) 10:02, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's about Tribu Lopit, and tribal friends.
Had the same experience, by the way. Huge party, ceremony, and all the village together, 19 years ago, with complete strangers, at first. Was even proposed to marry the most beautiful woman of the group. Real proposition (not joking). Have many pictures. 19 years younger. Can upload them on my website (not here, due to discussion below). Many offerings. Relation to money totally different (could not understand at the beginning). Very friendly people, but solemn faces in photos. Was alone to smile, lol :-) Guy met like that, in Luang Prabang. Same age as me. Was employee at my hotel at first. Accepted to lead me to his isolated village. Difficult sleep but amazing experience. So welcoming people, even when they don't know you before -- Basile Morin (talk) 11:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support JukoFF (talk) 14:02, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support I think this is a great group portrait. Whether it's similar to colonial photos or not would be easier for me to judge if I were looking at some examples by comparison, but I have no hesitation in supporting this photo. I'm wondering whether ethnographic photos are the frame of reference for the idea of colonial photography that's being discussed in this thread. The extent to which anthropologists were part of imperialist systems or fundamental critics of the white supremacist ideology underlying them varied, but the father of modern anthropology, Franz Boas, was born in 1858 and was already active in the 1880s, and he and his students rejected white supremacy and pseudo-scientific cultural evolutionism, which held that white people were more evolved than non-white people and that non-white people were "living ancestors" of white people. But the context in which Boaz and his students worked, doing groundbreaking ethnological studies, was very different from the context of someone traveling to a foreign country to photograph people today. So even if this photo is similar in style to ethnographic photos of yesteryear, it wouldn't have the same meaning because the intent of the photographer, his relationship (or lack of relationship) with the subjects, the reactions of the viewers and the political and technological situation are all different from 90 or more years ago. All that aside, I just think this is an excellent composition and cool to look at. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Even if my gut feeling weighs lightly in this discussion, perhaps you could consider what a black photojournalist who has done a Ph.D. on the subject has to say about this kind of photography. In the aforementioned essay she writes: "Further, even as these photographers strive to bring awareness and knowledge to the privileged nations and populations of the world via their images, they often unknowingly reproduce in those photos the same implicit biases that first pictorially rendered minorities as less-than-human." The whole text is worth a read. --Cart (talk) 01:52, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    I had a look at the essay, but I was hoping to see some images in it that showed what she was talking about. My mother was an anthropologist, so I surely believe that racism and white supremacy - and other types of power imbalances - in photography are relevant issues. If I saw anything that seemed offensive in this photo, I might react differently to it, so I respect anyone who does. But as it is, I just like the composition. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:50, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Support I disagree with the criticism. We should let the people of this tribe decide for themselves how they want to be shown on camera and how they want to represent their culture. Trust them to have agency in this matter rather than making decisions that it's 'colonialist' on their behalf. The picture is great. Cmao20 (talk) 02:01, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Oppose I don't think images that are prime examples of White gaze and Imperial gaze should be among our finest. --Kritzolina (talk) 08:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think this vote is fair and accurate. I'd be more careful with images of beggars or slums but the people you see here are 1) proud 2) happy and 3) enjoying what they do. I see absolutely no problem to document that, specially if these images help the articles on Wikipedia. But I guess that you should be there and experience it to judge it properly. I find it also fascinating that these kind of images seem to cause more concerns than zoo photos of captive animals. Poco a poco (talk) 18:45, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can't believe you wrote that! I have read a lot of ugly things here on FPC, but that is the worst. We are talking about human beings here, and you find it "fascinating" that we show more concern for them than "zoo photos of captive animals". This is just too much... --Cart (talk) 21:39, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure why what he's written is at all bad. Poco is talking about consent and agency, the fact that these are human beings with free will, have freely chosen to consent to this shot, and have some control over the way they are presented in the photograph and the way their culture is presented. He is in my view quite right to argue that there's a case that this photograph is more ethical than, say, a photograph of an animal in a zoo that has no control over its situation and is on show to be gawped at by spectators all day long. To argue, as you seem to be doing, that in so doing Poco is devaluing their humanity and comparing them to zoo animals, seems a very uncharitable reading both of content and tone.
I have the utmost respect for you as a contributor but in this discussion I have to say I firmly disagree with your perspective, probably for the first time ever on Commons. I have yet to see any of the critics of the picture give a good answer to the question of exactly what, if this picture is not okay, should an FP of an indigenous tribe in Africa and their culture look like?
The closest you get is when you mention the 'open and interesting portraits you get when someone photographs people they live among' in contrast to the expressions in this photograph, but if you wait for someone who lives among the Lopit tribe to produce an FP quality photo, I fear you will be waiting for a long time. And besides, how do we know that their expressions are, as you put it, 'closed, guarded and detached'? It seems just as plausible to me that they see having their photo taken as a serious occasion in which they should present a solemn version of themselves so as to give the best impression of themselves and their culture as possible, rather like the reason why Victorians didn't smile when they had their portraits taken. I have no idea whether this is true or whether they are in fact 'closed and guarded' but it doesn't matter.
It all seems like second-guessing people's motives and deciding on behalf of the people involved that consensual transactions between people are in fact exploitative. And in practice, even if not in theory, it all adds up to saying that no picture anyone could take of the Lopit tribe or similar cultures would be acceptable at FP. I don't like that. They have chosen to show us something of their culture. Whether we choose to interpret that in the shallow and reductionist lens of colonialist ethnography, or with some real sensitivity, respect and appreciation for their sophistication and intelligence, is entirely on us. But it's not the fault of this photograph. Cmao20 (talk) 22:10, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
First of all I want to answer to the accusation of "unfairness" - most judgements on the FP pages are unfair in some way, as they are usually highly subjective. There are a few votes based on technical issues that clearly make an image not eligible for FP, but otherwise there is always some subjectivity in the votes. Is a slight blur acceptable or not? Is the crop good or bad? We all sometimes find the votes of others unfair, because we see these issues differently. So yes, my vote is unfair in a way, but we cannot avoid being unfair when we give opposing votes.
But because you chose those words, I want to make it clear that I don't want to judge you as a photographer with my vote (Which I think should be clear anyways, but I know how often these lines are not clear). You did the best job you could under the circumstances and I truly believe you spent a lot of time and effort to take the least colonial and/or disctimintating images you could.
And still ... we live in a world that has a lot of power imbalance and your pictures reflect that in a way I subjectively cannot support. For you those people look "1) proud 2) happy and 3) enjoying what they do." To me this looks like they are faking those emotions because they are paid to look that way. But as you rightly point out, I wasn't there, I can't know. You also can't know for sure. I cannot judge the image based on the assumptions of what those people feel, I have no idea what they feel. I can only judge the image based on what I see in the image. And what I see is a colonial narrative about how people in Africa live. This narrative is nothing I want to display as one of our best images on the site. --Kritzolina (talk) 09:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • If you want to see what photos in a colonial style looks like, there is a good cross-section of such in Category:1910 in Malawi. The style in them looks very much like the style in this and other photos from the same session. The photos from 1910 may be a genuine effort to document people and their lives, but unfortunately this photography style is tainted by an oppressing history[1] and I think we should avoid it for FPs. Browsing through Category:Wiki Loves Africa All Images, you get a very different vibe. --Cart (talk) 11:47, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks for that link. I've started looking through it. So far, the photos that look most similar to this one are taken in a similar way that class photos (such as of high school or elementary school classes) have traditionally been taken. There can be a power dynamic in those, too, if they're shot by administrators, though they're often taken by fellow students (I know my high school picture was, but it wasn't quite in this style; I have at least one elementary school picture that includes me that was taken in this style). -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't think you should compare photos taken for the study of scientific racism with class photos. (Or are we talking about different links and photos?) Please read the texts (to the left) that go with the photos. The photos in that link were taken under humiliating circumstances, and the emotional scars are still vivid among the groups that were submitted to these studies. Sweden was no exception, we did the same to the Sámis and the restitutions are ongoing. --Cart (talk) 16:34, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the record, how could I compare picture like this one with zoo photos? That was never my intention and suggesting that feels like a blow below the belt line. I was talking about the ethics behind it. Thank you for your answer to Cart's comments, Cmao20! Again, I see nothing wrong with this picture and I believe this also needs to be documented and no, there are no cameras, cell phones or even electricity there. Expecting that a local makes a "proper" documentation is not realistic and I really wonder whether it would look in a way much different like here. With the first FPC of this trip that I proposed nobody seemed to have a problem, and I'm not sure what the big difference is. I will now refrain though from commenting any other opinions here or elaborating mine because I feel that I repeat myself. Thank you. Poco a poco (talk) 17:53, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    The first picture actually made me so uncomfortable, I was not able to gather my thoughts enough to oppose. Kritzolina (talk) 17:58, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    To tell the truth, I've grown so tired of all the times the boys here at FPC nominate yet another naked or sexualized woman and call it art, I've grown numb to it. Protesting all of these, and you quickly get the stamp of being a raving feminist. Just like in real life, me and other women often turn a blind eye to such things, or we would be angry most of the time. It would be impossible to stay friendly and get along with men in photo communities like this. We often have to go along to get along. Sad but true. It is easier to speak up about men in a male forum. --Cart (talk) 18:12, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • I understand. I could see how the photo of the woman could be uncomfortable to look at. I realize what baggage there is in white people making images of exoticized topless or naked women. But the nude is indeed a long-established artistic motif, with all the baggage it brings with it, and while I think this discussion is legitimate and important and thank you and Kritzolina for leading it, it hasn't so far convinced me to oppose these nominations, though I'll certainly continue thinking about it long after this nomination is over. In terms of the 1910 photos, I looked at more of them just now and did look at the captions. The one of "Slave Women" should be tough for anyone to contemplate, and should make people think seriously about the context of all the other photos of Livingstonia. I'm not sympathetic to the argument that photographing naked people and showing those photos is wrong, though, and by no means do all feminists argue against erotica. For example, I know a woman who consciously paints male nudes with the female gaze. In many facets of life, it's the power dynamic and not whether people are nude or not that messes things up. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:40, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Of course nudes are legit artistic motifs and you are right about what you say, but it's the female body that is so often overrepresented due to the baggage of how art was made up until now, and it gets frustrating after a while. Although things are happening in the real world and men appear in advertising campaigns in ways only women were shown before, it will take some time until such changes reaches FPC and similar photo communities. --Cart (talk) 23:21, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Definitely. And it's horrible that the women's rights that my mother fought so hard for now have to be fought for again and regained here in the U.S. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I asked one of my indigenous friends what his thoughts on this picture are. He allowed me to quote him here. These are his words: "I didn't find anything to admire in this image. In the picture I cant see any pride these people might be feeling in this attire and pose. My concern is that is this the part of their culture, do they really want to preserve it or its a compulsion. If this is done for the sake of earning money, then I would tell it is mockery of the civilisation." I think this opinion adds additional food for thoughts. --Kritzolina (talk) 15:23, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think you mean Kritzolina, right? ;-) --Cart (talk) 16:18, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Both of you, but Kritzolina made the point about subjectivity being "unfair", yes. -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:23, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, I see the sentence has been changed. Always try to be fair, personally -- Basile Morin (talk) 02:06, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, Kritzolina's review. Above discussion is about feminism, "nude(s)", topless and naked women. Candidate picture is different topic -- Basile Morin (talk) 11:13, 13 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed results:
Result: 16 support, 2 oppose, 0 neutral → featured. /Yann (talk) 18:26, 18 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This image will be added to the FP gallery: People/Portrait#Mixed_&_Groups
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