Template talk:Occupation

Explanations of some difficult occupation names

Some of the occupation names are difficult to translate. In order to help translators to save time, we collect some short descriptions here. The best way to do this is to compare occupation names which are very similar and easy to exchange by mistake.

• artisan vs. artist: an artisan is a person skilled in some arts and crafts (German: „(Kunst-)Handwerk“), but an artist is someone engaged in the fine arts (German: „(bildende) Kunst“, „schöne Künste“).

• chef: a chef is neither a “boss” nor just a “cook”, but someone who cooks professionally, especially the executive chef of a professional kitchen setting.

• draftsman: also draughtsman, draughtsperson. This word has (like the German equivalent Zeichner) a variety of meanings (see the English Wikipedia article). For our {{Creator}} templates we need in most cases the meaning “a person skilled in drawing for artistic purposes”. Therefore, if you translate this word and you can select between different translations, please select the one which points to an artistic draftsman. For example, the Spanish translation should be dibujante, not delineante or su(b)scriptor; and the German just Zeichner, not technischer Zeichner oder Unterzeichner.

• historian vs. historiographer: an historian is someone who studies and teaches the academic discipline history, but an historiographer is someone who actually writes narrative books about things that have happened in the past. Both occupations are in fact very similar and the occupation names are often used interchangeably, but there is a slight difference: any historian can be an historiographer and vice versa, but no historian needs to be an historiographer and vice versa. For example, the ancient historiographers like Herodotus were historiographers, but not historians in the special sense of the word, because there was no academic discipline called ‘history’ in that time. Historiography was an art in these times but there was not yet a science or humanity of history in the modern sense of the word. On the other hand, today there can be an historian who isn’t an historiographer: such a person would teach history on an university and write books about the academic discipline of history, but whould not actually write narrative books about things that have happened in the past.

• physician vs. physicist: a physician is a medical practitioner or medical doctor, but a physicist is a scientist who studies or practices physics.

• printer vs. printmaker, typesetter vs. typographer vs. type designer: In the past, often the same person was printer, typesetter and typographer at once (e.g. Aldus Manutius), but today these occupations are different.
  • A printer is someone who prints books, magazines etc.; being a printer is a profession or craftsmanship, but (today and in most cases) not an art.
  • The word printmaker is sometimes used in the same sense as printer, but it has the special sense of someone specialized in the techniques of printmaking as a fine art, i.e. the process of making artworks by printing. Printmaking is an art. Artists like Albrecht Dürer or Pablo Picasso were printmakers, but not printers; most printers are no printmakers in this sense.
  • A typesetter is someone who practices typesetting, i.e. actually composes type to bring a text in the form used for printing; being a typesetter is a profession or craftsmanship, but not (necessarily) an art.
  • The word typographer is sometimes used in the same sense as printer or typesetter, but today has the special meaning of a person skilled in the art of typography; a typographer can be involved in the acutal typesetting of a book but can also be just the graphic designer who designs the typography of that book before the typesetter does his job. Artists like David Carson are typographers, but neither printers nor typesetters.
  • Finally, a type designer is someone who designs new typefaces (fonts) or modifies existing ones. Typographers are sometimes type designers and vice versa, but not in all cases: most typographers (graphic designers) never design their own typefaces but just use the existing ones.

• restaurator: a professional devoted to the restauration of artwork; see Conservation-restoration.

  Not in the template ;) Maybe it's the same as restorer ? --Kaganer (talk) 14:05, 24 December 2009 (UTC)

Problem with "Supported Professions" table

"Supported Professions" table shows output of the template for different professions and in different languages. Languages can be switch with "?uselang=xx" trick or through links above the table. However there are some problems: last 9 rows in polish version show English translation, same with Russian (5 rows) or German (20 rows) versions. I suspect we are running into some sort of maximum number of template transclusions per page limit. Anybody knows how to fix it? --Jarekt (talk) 17:33, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

The expensive parser functions are added by {{Fallback}}. We just need to fix the lang parameter, so no fallbacking needs to be done. I made an edit to Template:Occupation/doc/sp, that should fix it. --Slomox (talk) 20:36, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks that fixed it. --Jarekt (talk) 23:55, 16 February 2010 (UTC)

Composer ?

Seems there is no parameter for "composer". "Musician" sounds a bit too broad to me. Any opinions about adding it ? Jean-Fred (talk) 13:40, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Do it. --Slomox (talk) 15:10, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

 Done & translations written for de, es, and nl (using OmegaWiki). Jean-Fred (talk) 15:25, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Category:Pages using Occupation template with incorrect parameters

I created a new maintenance category holding all the pages transcribing {{Occupation}} template using incorrect parameters. As a result now we can check what kind of professions are assigned to various people which we do not handle. I added some new ones to the Template:Occupation/en which will need translations to other languages (display Template:Occupation/doc in your language and look for professions marked in red to see what needs translating). In case some would like to help out with fixing those templates, so far I was only checking use of {{Occupation}} template within creator pages, and you have to remember about long lag between your changes to a creator template and the time it takes for the server to clean up all the pages transcribing it.--Jarekt (talk) 21:07, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Expand?

Below is a list of some occupations listed in Category:People by occupation by alphabet which are not used by Occupation template. I think it might be good to expand this template to include some of the occupations below. Any opinions what the criteria for inclusion should be? --Jarekt (talk) 14:03, 29 July 2010 (UTC)

I'd say if the sentence "Person X was a famous Y" sounds meaningful, it is okay to include. What we should exclude is occupations you usually don't become famous for. E.g. "worker", "butcher", "driver" etc. --Slomox (talk) 10:53, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

I like this idea. --Jarekt (talk) 02:25, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I'd say include anything that is needed on a Creator page. For example, if Lewis Hamilton were to get a Creator template, he'd be "driver" or an "F1 driver" depending on how deep you want to go, and this template could have that added then. Inductiveload (talk) 00:09, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

We do have Category:Pages using Occupation template with incorrect parameters for tracking needed additions. I sometimes go through them and add occupations to the template. Other are welcome to do so too. --Jarekt (talk) 18:30, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

suggestion: gilder. In Template:Occupation/de in should be: Vergolder / Vergolderin. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 14:58, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Question

The german translations I added to Template:Occupation/de are not displayed in the table on Template:Occupation but still in red – anyone? --Mylius (talk) 13:14, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

I think it is a temporary problem with a cache. I do not see any red links in German version. --Jarekt (talk) 04:12, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. It's displayed correctly now. Thanks for the answer anyway. --Mylius (talk) 19:58, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Broken for lang en-gb

Not sure of the guts of this template so that we can align language en with language en-gb. Just know that it is broken for en-gb. Thx  — billinghurst sDrewth 02:17, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Not to worry, fixed with a redirect, once I took time to dig into the template.  — billinghurst sDrewth 02:20, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Translation tip

I found http://historyofwork.iisg.nl/search.php which seems to be an excellent source for translations of occupational titles. / Lokal_Profil 17:48, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

clergy

Would we be able to add clergy to the list. Priest is often very particular, and clergy is a more generic for the protestant religions. Thanks.  — billinghurst sDrewth 05:01, 3 April 2011 (UTC)

 Comment We already have "cleric", I think it is better.--Zolo (talk) 13:14, 10 November 2011 (UTC)

Translations: Sort order & Alternates

Please note two small topics: Template_talk:Occupation/en#Sort order Template_talk:Occupation/en#Alternates. --Kaganer (talk) 20:23, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

Rulers

Is this template the right place for occupations like Roman Emperor, grand-duke of Tuscany, president of the United States, and so on? It would be useful especially with {{Portrait of}}. Jastrow (Λέγετε) 12:00, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Wikidata

FYI Wikidata:Wikidata:Bot requests#Create items for occupations. --Zolo (talk) 19:33, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Lua version

I have created a Lua version of this template at Module:Occupation. It currently only has its English version language (Module:Occupation/en), but others should work the same way.

The module fairly simple, but I think it does everything that this template does. However, it does not make the distinction between "male" and "default". Is the distinction used anywhere ?

As synonyms like "book dealer|book seller|bookseller=" can be a pain to maintain, they are listed in a special page: Module:Occupation/redirects rather than in every language-specific version. --Zolo (talk) 08:40, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Unless there are issues with it, I will soon deploy the Lua version,

During the conversion, I have fixed a few typos and noticed quite a few translation inconsistencies. Sometimes, words that are handled like synonyms in the English version are translated in like two different terms in other languages. For instance we have |urban planner|urbanist= urban planner in English, but the two terms are kept distinct in German. I suspect that "urban planner" is a practical job, while "urbanist" is more theoretical. But as both words have been handled as synonyms in the English version, the distinction has not been made in many languages. I hope Module:Occupation/wikidata can help better define the terms and maintain accurate translations.

I have also added terms that were in some language subtemplates, but not in the English one. There are still a few that I have not added though, see Module:Occupation/doc#Words in the translated module, missing in the English version. --Zolo (talk) 15:11, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

Needed occupation: riding master

I'm adding some equitation books from best old authors, many of them being "riding master", "ecuyer" in French, "cavallerizzo" in Italian. I did not find any alternative terms for such occupation - but the generic, uninformative "writer" or the wrong "dressage rider". Can be "riding master" added to the occupations list? Is there some alternative? --Alex_brollo Talk|Contrib 20:10, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Builder

{{Edit request}} Could 'builder' be added to the list please? There are some older (master) builders that were not architects. --Eleassar ^(t/p) 08:15, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

 Done Awesome! Thank you! Steinsplitter (talk) 11:06, 25 July 2015 (UTC)

Ichthyologist

As part of a batch upload, I've been creating a number of Creator templates for famous ichthyologists, but that occupation isn't supported by this template. Could we add "ichthyologist" to the supported list? Example: Creator:Hugh McCormick Smith. BMacZero (talk) 18:26, 26 August 2015 (UTC)

Occupation:Wikimedian

{{Resolved}}

Please add "Wikimedian" to the list of available occupations. Andy Mabbett (talk) 14:36, 9 November 2015 (UTC)

Apparently not resolved; adds page to Category:Pages using Occupation template with incorrect parameters. Andy Mabbett (talk) 14:47, 20 March 2017 (UTC)

 Done Andy, the simple reason was it hasn’t been in the list. I’ve added it just now. (You could have done yourself, the template is not fully protected anymore.) — Speravir – 03:00, 25 March 2017 (UTC)

Sound recordists

For cases like:

• Creator:A.R. Gregory
• Creator:Richard Ranft (sound recordist)
• Creator:David Watts (teacher)

we need the occupation "sound recordist", please. Andy Mabbett (talk) 14:39, 10 October 2016 (UTC)

Done. --Steinsplitter (talk) 13:32, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

Wikidata insert to Wikimedia

Hallo i make follow thing first. I want to insert template from Wikidata. But the translated text change only partly. Example from eng. to german leave follow text: "Bechreibung:indischer Spiritual leader" ( "Spiritual leader" dont change with language). I have ask at discussion and they say that i have to ask here.

• German Discussion: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Forum#Einbindung_von_Wikidata
• Category with problem: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Sri_Chinmoy

{{Edit request}} --Richard Reinhardt (talk) 14:51, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

@Richard Reinhardt:  Done --Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 22:33, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

System administrator

Can we add something like System administrator or IT professional or something like that please? -- Cirt (talk) 20:40, 13 November 2014 (UTC)

The above comment moved here from Template talk:Occupation/list (which I have now re-directed here). Andy Mabbett (talk) 13:25, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

@Cirt:  Done Added system administrator and IT professional. --Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 22:23, 18 March 2017 (UTC)

Textile designer

Can we add Textile designer to the template? - PKM (talk) 01:41, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

 Done --Hedwig in Washington ^(mail?) 23:31, 26 March 2017 (UTC)

Performing artist / Performance artist

What exactly is the intended occupation? I see “Performing artist” is used in the Musical work template to mean a musician that performed a work, which makes sense. But in fine art “performance artist” means an artist who creates work by doing certain actions. In some languages the two senses are completely different (in fact I don’t think the two words mean the same thing in English). Al12si (talk) 20:09, 18 April 2023 (UTC)