File talk:Ukrainian lang.png
Image was protected due to edit warring.
Оскільки у файлі вже півтора роки триває війна редагувань, він захищений. Будь ласка, наведіть джерела, згідно з якими створена мапа.--Anatoliy (talk) 23:03, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
А ось і джерело [1], яке свідчить, що у Ростовській області і Краснодарському краї мешкають 250 тис. українців (майже стільки само як у Москві). Тому наявність синьої плями на карті в районі Кубані обґрунтована. Отже якщо проблема була лише в Кубані, то перша версія карти була правильна.--Anatoliy (talk) 23:16, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
- Please use English here, the census shows ethnic not linguistic composition, and 131774 thousand Ukrainians for a territory of five million inhabitants is only 2.5 %. You have greater percentage of Ukrainians in Crimea yet you left that region completely blanked out. --Kuban kazak (talk) 15:29, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think all users who edit this file speak at least Russian. So, I think that we should calculate not percentage in large region (Krai, Oblast), but percentage in smaller regions (such as raions or cities of oblast/krai subordination. Can you provide such data?--Anatoliy (talk) 19:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
- I posted on your talk page, that the majority of ethnic Ukrainians in the whole region are migrants from the Ukraine proper, that is sufficient reference by a long shot, considering that most of Soviet-time migrants would settle around major cities/industrial complexes. None of the original references that Olegzima used show any indication that Krasnodar Kray speaks Ukrainian. So, I am sorry to say, but you can ask for a third opinion from a third party if you wish, but there is sufficient evidence for the removal of the shading of that region, now what about Crimea? Do you agree with leaving it also shaded out, considering there are more ethnic Ukrainians there than in Krasnodar kray? --Kuban kazak (talk) 17:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
- But if I revert now, other side will protest. Find concensus with your opponents what version is correct. And you did not provide data with ethnic groups by raion.--Anatoliy (talk) 19:47, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
- Well I cannot blame the other side for not providing nay references and not taking part in the discussion, I think it goes to show who are doing it for factual reasons and who are for political. I do not have access to data for raion, and I do not see why its necessary in light of the evidence that most of the Ukrainians in Krasnodar kray are migrants from Ukraine proper not natives and Soviet history will show that most of these would settle in cities/industrial regions rather than rural areas, and in majority of those places become Russophone. The fact that so far I failed to see a contemporary reference which supports the assertion that there are Ukrainian speakers in Krasnodar Kray distributed over the region shown is one that is not supported by any evidence. Therefore unless the interested parties can obtain it, I see no reason why you need to take their side. --Kuban kazak (talk) 16:54, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- If I revert to other version, second side will blame me that I take your side. Please provide some digital proving of your data (приведите цифры, подтверждающие ваши данные). Without it I cannot believe you. Can your draw your own map with correct filling of Crimea and Kuban'? If you think that I am preconceived ask another sysop to revert.--Anatoliy (talk) 20:15, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- The second side has failed to provide specific references of their own as an admin it is your responsibility to not take a side in the conflict, since the other side failed to show evidence that the path of Ukrainian language distribution the way their version is in the wrong. I have provided you references, что почти все украинцы Краснодарского края - мигранты из УССР/Украины. А также, что по одним переписям можно сделать вывод, что больше украиноговорящих в Крыму чем на Кубани, но карта этому противоречет. In short based on the evidence provided the version of the map with Kuban shaded is WRONG! The lack of participation of the other side in the dispute can also be taken that they are aware their version is wrong. The fact that you yourself know this, and are refusing to carry out my request makes me wonder whether you have taken a side in the dispute? --Kuban kazak (talk) 14:51, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
- ОК, поскольку с другой стороны не поступало возражений, вернул версию Кубанского казака. Защиту пока снимать не буду.--Anatoliy (talk) 19:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
- The second side has failed to provide specific references of their own as an admin it is your responsibility to not take a side in the conflict, since the other side failed to show evidence that the path of Ukrainian language distribution the way their version is in the wrong. I have provided you references, что почти все украинцы Краснодарского края - мигранты из УССР/Украины. А также, что по одним переписям можно сделать вывод, что больше украиноговорящих в Крыму чем на Кубани, но карта этому противоречет. In short based on the evidence provided the version of the map with Kuban shaded is WRONG! The lack of participation of the other side in the dispute can also be taken that they are aware their version is wrong. The fact that you yourself know this, and are refusing to carry out my request makes me wonder whether you have taken a side in the dispute? --Kuban kazak (talk) 14:51, 13 February 2009 (UTC)
- If I revert to other version, second side will blame me that I take your side. Please provide some digital proving of your data (приведите цифры, подтверждающие ваши данные). Without it I cannot believe you. Can your draw your own map with correct filling of Crimea and Kuban'? If you think that I am preconceived ask another sysop to revert.--Anatoliy (talk) 20:15, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- Well I cannot blame the other side for not providing nay references and not taking part in the discussion, I think it goes to show who are doing it for factual reasons and who are for political. I do not have access to data for raion, and I do not see why its necessary in light of the evidence that most of the Ukrainians in Krasnodar kray are migrants from Ukraine proper not natives and Soviet history will show that most of these would settle in cities/industrial regions rather than rural areas, and in majority of those places become Russophone. The fact that so far I failed to see a contemporary reference which supports the assertion that there are Ukrainian speakers in Krasnodar Kray distributed over the region shown is one that is not supported by any evidence. Therefore unless the interested parties can obtain it, I see no reason why you need to take their side. --Kuban kazak (talk) 16:54, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
- But if I revert now, other side will protest. Find concensus with your opponents what version is correct. And you did not provide data with ethnic groups by raion.--Anatoliy (talk) 19:47, 2 February 2009 (UTC)
- I posted on your talk page, that the majority of ethnic Ukrainians in the whole region are migrants from the Ukraine proper, that is sufficient reference by a long shot, considering that most of Soviet-time migrants would settle around major cities/industrial complexes. None of the original references that Olegzima used show any indication that Krasnodar Kray speaks Ukrainian. So, I am sorry to say, but you can ask for a third opinion from a third party if you wish, but there is sufficient evidence for the removal of the shading of that region, now what about Crimea? Do you agree with leaving it also shaded out, considering there are more ethnic Ukrainians there than in Krasnodar kray? --Kuban kazak (talk) 17:27, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
- I think all users who edit this file speak at least Russian. So, I think that we should calculate not percentage in large region (Krai, Oblast), but percentage in smaller regions (such as raions or cities of oblast/krai subordination. Can you provide such data?--Anatoliy (talk) 19:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
The information Kuban kozak gives is inaccurate. I toured Krasnodarsky krai on the invitation of the Kuban kozak choir and Ukrainin is spoken everywhere, in all the stanytsias and in Krasnodar itself. The fact that many people do not recognize the language that they speak as Ukrainian, and refer to the language as Kozak does not change the matter. One only has to look at the text of song books published in Krasnodar to see that 70% of the song texts are in Ukrainian. The map where Kuban is not shown as having Ukrainian spoken is politically biased. ҃҃Бандурист (talk) 01:20, 20 September 2012 (UTC)
Sources for the map
[edit]
The references given in the file description don't verify the map completely. Could anyone give more exact data which would make it possible to reproduce such a precise map, including standalone statistics for cities and non-administrative boundaries? --Microcell (talk) 16:50, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
