File talk:Non-Native-American-Nations-Territorial-Claims-over-NAFTA-countries-1750-2008.gif

This map is nonsense - it fails to acknowledge native sovereignty over vast areas of land right up until the 1890 for example the Comanche completely controlled vast areas of the centre of North america.

 ==Arctic Islands==

Sverdrup Islands

This is an excellent map, but ive found an anomoly within it. The Sverdrup islands in northern canada were not discovered until 1898 yet are shown as belonging to britain for decades before then. After their discovery they remained unclaimed until 1928 when the Norwiegen government ruled them as an external territory until 1930 when they ceded them to canada in exchange for recognition of Norwiegen ownership over Jan Mayan. They should be listed as terra nullis before the norwiegen claim was presentedXavierGreen (talk) 16:01, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Mackenzie King Island and Borden Island

Both discovered and claimed in 1915 should be listed as terra nullis before hand

Meighen Island and Lougheed Island

Meighen Island and Lougheed Island are listed as belonging to britain and then canada but was not discovered and annexed by canada until 1916. It should be listed as terra nullis before then.XavierGreen (talk) 16:25, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Canadian islands annexed in 1948

Airforce Island, Prince Charles Island, and Foley Island were not discovered and annexed until 1948 and were terra nullis before then.XavierGreen (talk) 21:43, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

• In 1805 the UK through the North West Company lay claim to the territory that drained into the Arctic. As these islands, although undiscovered at the time, drain into the Arctic they would be claimed by the UK from 1805. -- Esemono (talk) 07:26, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

• Under international law, one cannot lay claim to land that is not discovered yet (how can you claim something that you dont know exists). Therefore the islands cannot have possibly been claimed until they were discovered. This is the reason why the dispute over the Sverdrup islands occured. Until the islands were each discovered they were considered terra nullis under international law. If another country had discovered them then that country had a legal claim to the islands, just as happened in the case of the Sverdrup islands. There was an expedition in 1915-1916 for the sole purpose of discovering and claiming as many islands as possible so that other nations could not lay claim to them. The Northwest territory claim in 1805, legally only applied to the unclaimed islands that were discovered before that time.XavierGreen (talk) 23:43, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

• Spain claimed all of North America, under the Pope's authority, even though they didn't the exact extent of the continent. International law has little to do with this file's country's claim over said land. The Pig War was caused because both America and the UK claimed land they didn't know existed. This map is about Territorial Claims.-- Esemono (talk) 04:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

If thats the case then every speck of land on the map should be hashed as disputed by spain from 1494 onward unless Spain had signed another treaty ceding their claim to the area. For Example, virtually the entire 1750 map should be marked as spanish claimed. The San Juan Islands were not unknown at the time of the Pig War, that dispute arose from the fact that no border was established between Victoria Island and the mainland during the 1946 oregon treaty, as a result the islands in between were disputed leading to the Pig War.67.84.178.0 20:13, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

The Pig war was a result of maps with missing information i.e. islands that weren't mapped, and channels that weren't discovered. The Spanish claimed all land from 1494 but then adjusted it to the Pacific coast when Vasco Núñez de Balboa in 1513 claimed the later for Spain. This was then reinforced when Spanish ships charted the coast to enforce their claim in 1775, and 1779 eventually they changed the treaty system to sovereignty equals settlements via the Nootka conventions. -- Esemono (talk) 14:07, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

The question still stands, how is it possible for someone to claim something that they dont know exists? Would not the 1805 claim come into effect only once each particular piece land was discovered? A country cannot claim to own something that doesnt exist. For the purposes of history, the islands in question did 'not exist' until they were discovered.XavierGreen (talk) 18:02, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

As I stated before; nations have in the past claimed land they didn't know existed. You keep saying its not possible but I have shown you historical examples of nations claiming land they didn't know existed. When Balboa claimed the pacific coast in its entirety he didn't know the extent of his claim or the lands of his claim but the Spanish used his declaration as the basis of the claim to the entire Pacific Coast. The Pig War was sparked because each power, Britain and America, thought that earlier claims gave them sovereignty over previously undiscovered islands, and straits. -- Esemono (talk) 09:40, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

When the Spanish claimed the pacific coast they did not know its extent, but they did know it existed. The same can be said as to the islands of the Pig War. At the time the boundries were drawn it was known islands existed between Victoria and the coast, but these islands were not mapped. Although these claimants did not know fully what they were claiming, they did know that land was actually existant to be claimed. Unlike the two examples you have provided, the specific islands in the extreme north of canada i have mentioned were not only unmapped, the were not known to exist at all. They could not be found on any map of british or canadian claims before they were discovered. You will not find the islands mentioned in any of the British Colonial Office lists. And if the canadian government truely considered the areas to be claimed already, why would they spend the money and resources at sending the various expeditions sent specifically to claim the islands and estabish canadian title over them?XavierGreen (talk) 03:49, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Akimiski Island

You also show akimiski island in lower hudson bay as belonging to the province ontario when in fact it is part of the territory of nunuvut, and before that the northwest territory.XavierGreen (talk) 16:07, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Good catch I'll update that. -- Esemono (talk) 07:26, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

Spanish claim on the Pacific coast

As you can clearly see from the companion article to this image the Spanish did indeed claim the entire coast and sent ships to support this claim till the Nootka conventions in 1790. -- Esemono (talk) 14:34, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

Just chiming in to agree with Esemono. In theory the Spanish claimed the whole continent based on the en:Treaty of Tordesillas and they built forts as far north as Vancouver island. There was no northern border to that claim, the straight line northern border of Mexico currently drawn on some of the early frames is based on the en:Adams–Onís Treaty in 1819. That border shouldn't exist on any of the pre-1819 frames. Kmusser (talk) 18:38, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Gulf of Mexico island claims

I am posting this discussion item that appears unanswered at the Talk page of "File:Non-Native-American-Nations-Territorial-Claims-over-NAFTA-countries-1750-2008.gif"

I noticed some things that were missing. There were several islands in the gulf of mexico that were claimed by the united states in the 1800's. There were three groups of claims one in 1879 another in 1880 and a third in 1884. All of the islands claimed were also claimed by mexico, and in 1894 the US Government waived its claims on all these three island groups in favor of the Mexican claims.XavierGreen (talk) 6:48 pm, 8 April 2010, Thursday (3 years, 6 months, 6 days ago) (UTC−7)

24.5.228.252 19:41, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

External use

This file has been used in: Johnny Harris (2020-03-07). "The Longest Border in the World". Youtube.

France still on the map?

On the latter maps, France is still "not greyed out" like many other nations are. But, I can't see France active anywhere on that map. Oversight? France very small? France really really wanting to take over something? — Preceding unsigned comment was added by 2600:1700:38D0:6D3F:7509:F:CBAE:7410 (talk) 19:04, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

Saint Pierre and Miquelon is the last bit of French territory in North America, it's just south of Newfoundland, though it's too small to be seen on the map. 138.119.53.164 17:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC)