File talk:Map-Hispanophone World 2000.png

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Archive1•Archive 2

Attemps to enhance the area of the Spanish language

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This map is permantely under attack by several user that permantely try to enhance the geographical expansion of the Spanish language, without any credible sources whatsoever!. Spanish is not spoken in relevent numbers as a first language in Brazil (and you should not count Portuñol, since it is a mixed language between Portuguese and Spanish, spoken as a second language, in very small areas of contact between Uruguay and Brazil - note the areas some user try to colour that are bigger than Spain itself), Morocco or the Western Sahara. It is not spoken at all in the Falklands. And the verifiable data for the Philippines give a number of less than 3000 speakers! And the The Cervantes Institute source is not a primary source (is is not even a secondary source!!), as it just quotes an Italian almanac (Calendario Atlante de Agostini 1997, Novara, Instituto Geográfico de Agostino, 1996, p. 315, that gives, without sources, 3% of the population speaking Spanish). To this the Cervantes Institute adds 689.000 speakers of Chavacano (not Spanish proper, but a Spanish creole, spoken mostly in Zamboanga City and in the provinces of Zamboanga del Sur, Zamboanga Sibugay, Zamboanga del Norte, and Basilan. It is also spoken in some areas of Cavite, Davao, and Cotabato), according to data from A. Quilis (La lengua española en cuatro mundos, Madrid, Mapfre, 1992, p. 82), without specifying if in the first estimate these Chavacano speakers were already counted or not (thus raising the total figure to 2.450.000). The Cervantes site does state that these estimate contradict the Census. One should also notice that English is an official language in the Philippines (as it is in India), unlike Spanish (see The Official Website of the Republic of the Philippines). Therefore, I believe that the Philippines should NOT be included in the Hispanosphere in any way, since there are no relevant numbers of Spanish spkeakers there, given that the Cervantes Institute is not, in this specific matter, a reliable source! Please stop trying to change the map in unsourced and biased ways! The Ogre 15:00, 6 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I support you, Ogre. — Ƶ§œš¹ [aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi] 03:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks Ƶ§œš¹! The Ogre 15:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It would by far not diminish the value and reputation of the Spanish language if there was mentioned also the fact that in many countries with that language as the official and main one, there are loads of countries - Spain herself included - where other languages are co-official, widely spoken and partly, as in Paraguay, even the actual majoritarian idioms, let alone "languages of the heart". Hellsepp 17:50, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Small corrections and note

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Furthermore I'm:

The Ogre 15:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

About map Image:Map-Hispanophone World.PNG done by user Migang2g

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The discussion at Image talk:Map-Hispanophone World.PNG is pertinent for this page. I have added the following comments to that map: I persist in considering this map as a biased attempt to enhance the areas tha supposedly speak Spanish or were a significante proportion of the population speaks Spanish. There are several errors:

  • Brazil - en:Portuñol is not a Spanish creole or dialect, it is mixed contact language between Portuguese and Spanish (generally spoken as a second language when in contact between Spanish and Portuguese speakers), and, as such, it should not be included in either a map of the Spanish language in the world, either a map of the Portuguese language in the world. Furthermore, in this map the supposed area of Portuñol wrongly includes:
    • all of the border of Brazil with Spanish speaking countries - without any source whatsoever, never mentioned anywhere, and a pure invention by user Migang2g;
    • the States of en:Rio Grande do Sul and, at least, parts of Santa Catarina - another pure invention by Migang2g, since Portuñol, even if it was to be included, is not sopken in such wide areas, but only in very specific localities, such as the border between Uruguay and Brazil, notably in the region of the twin cities of Rivera and Santana do Livramento, where the border is open and a street is the only line dividing the two countries. Notice that the entry for the minority languages in Rio Grande to Sul do not even mention Portuñol;
  • Aruba (according to Ethnologue Spanish is only spoken by less then 10,000 in a population of 103,484; and en:Papiamento is describe byt the Government of Aruba (Languages of Aruba - Government of Aruba (official site) - 2005) as an Afro-Portuguese Creole, not a Spanish one).
  • Netherlands Antilles, since Ethnologue does not even list Spanish as a language spoken there and en:Papiamento is describe as an Afro-Portuguese Creole, not a Spanish one; even if the Government does say, in Population and Housing Census 2001, that 6.1% do speak Spanish (10,699 speakers of Spanish out of 183,000), that is hardly a significative number ans is ranked 4th after Papiamento, English and Dutch.
  • Falklands - a pure Hispanophone invention, since no Spanish is basically spoken there, and English is universal in a population basically of British descent;
  • Philippines - verifiable data for the Philippines give a number of less than 3000 speakers! And the The Cervantes Institute source is not a primary source (is is not even a secondary source!!), as it just quotes an Italian almanac (Calendario Atlante de Agostini 1997, Novara, Instituto Geográfico de Agostino, 1996, p. 315, that gives, without sources, 3% of the population speaking Spanish). To this the Cervantes Institute adds 689.000 speakers of en:Chavacano (not Spanish proper, but a Spanish creole, spoken mostly in Zamboanga City and in the provinces of Zamboanga del Sur, Zamboanga Sibugay, Zamboanga del Norte, and Basilan. It is also spoken in some areas of Cavite, Davao, and Cotabato), according to data from A. Quilis (La lengua española en cuatro mundos, Madrid, Mapfre, 1992, p. 82), without specifying if in the first estimate these Chavacano speakers were already counted or not (thus raising the total figure to 2.450.000). The Cervantes site does state that these estimate contradict the Census. One should also notice that English is an official language in the Philippines (as it is in India), unlike Spanish (see The Official Website of the Republic of the Philippines). Therefore, I believe that the Philippines should NOT be included in the Hispanosphere in any way, since there are no relevant numbers of Spanish spkeakers there, given that the Cervantes Institute is not, in this specific matter, a reliable source;
  • USA - the source for this map is in fact better than the first source of the map, because in fact the old source (2000 Census) is about Hispanic population, and the present source (2006 Census) is about Spanish speakers over 5 years old who speak it at home. HOWEVER, the graphical representation in the map is somewhat biased since it colours states with about 3% of speakers in a shade of blue that gives the impression of a significate portion of the population being Hispanophone - the question here is one of graphical representation (compare with Image:Spanish USC2000 PHS.svg, dne with he 2000 Census data);
  • Canada - the source presented is not a direct one to the Canadian PMB Print Measurement Bureau, but a reference in an online Hispanic-Canadian magazine (Factor Hispano Online). Even if the numbers presented are true (909,000 Spanish-speaking people in a total universe of more than 30 millions, for 2000), Canada should not be ALL coloured and in such a strong shade of blue, which clearly aims to give the impression that Spanish is more spoken there then in fact it is. One should must, for a country where Spanish is clearly a minority language of migrants, acertain the exact geographical distribution of speakers, and not colour the whole country as being, in a way, Spanish speaking;
  • Morocco - Spanish is not soken in significant levels at all in any part of the country, and no source states that - even if Spanish is known to some degree (and what degree is that?) by a minority people as a second language, that should not be included since this is not a map about Spanish knowledge as a foreign language, but a map of speakers of Spanish as first language. The source presented, by the way, is not a primary source, but just quotes others sources without giving the specific methodologies that were used to obtain any tye of numbers;
  • Western Sahara (RASD and Tinduf) -I just quote what Migang2g say "There aren´t official sources because saharauis don´t have an official country" And, in fact, all that is said about the situation in that territory does make one believe that Spanish is not spoken at all in any significante level (see en:Western Sahara and en:Sahrawi - note that for these the English language article states that their languages are "Hassaniya, Modern Standard Arabic; a northern minority also speak Tachelhit (a Berber dialect)", not Spanish), even if some sources just state that Spanish is spoken (never giving numbers; and the numbers of the overall population are not relevant because they say nothing about the numbers of Spanis speakers), that seems more a political position than a description of actual reality. The Ogre 16:35, 14 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish language in the Philippines

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Spanish was an official language in the Philippines from the beginning of colonization with Miguel López de Legazpi in the 16th century, until the change of Constitution in 1973. After having been quickly redesignated an official language by Presidential proclamation, Spanish remained official until a subsequent constitution in 1987 removed its official status [1]. Speakers of Spanish nowadays, comprise 2,500 and more than 5,000 people study Spanish in the Philippines. [2]. --Keepscases (talk) 06:09, 6 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Give me a break...! That's 7500 out of 96 millions! The Ogre (talk) 14:14, 7 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose the map refer to the Chavacano Dialect (Philippine Creole Spanish) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chavacano_language Native speakers

  • 870,000 (All variants)(2007 Census)
  • 2,500,000 (All variants)(2010 Census)

--95.121.205.89 16:51, 5 September 2012 (UTC)[reply]

File is protected

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The file is protected now due to the counterproductive upload war. Please discuss the changes to be done (bring up clear evidence which map version is correct) and try to come to an consensus. Ezarate and I will watch this page, too. If we overlook a result here please request unprotection at Commons:Administrators' noticeboard/Blocks and protections if there is a consensus. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 23:44, 16 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]


Hello!

Philippines, North Morocco and Western Sahara must be added.

Philippines (Countries or regions where Spanish is spoken without official recognition, or where creoles are spoken of Spanish origin, with or without official recognition.)

1,816,773 Spanish + 1,200,000 Spanish creole: Antonio Quilis "La lengua española en Filipinas", 1996 pag.234 cervantesvirtual.com, mepsyd.es (page 23), mepsyd.es (page 249), spanish-differences.com, aresprensa.com. The figure 2,900,000 Spanish speakers, we can find in "Pluricentric languages: differing norms in different nations" (page 45 by R.W.Thompson), or in sispain.org./ More than 2 million Spanish speakers and around 3 million with Chavacano speakers according to "Instituto Cervantes de Manila" (elcastellano.org)

North Morocco (Countries or regions where Spanish is spoken without official recognition, or where creoles are spoken of Spanish origin, with or without official recognition.)

Magdalena Roldán "El español en el contexto Sociolingüístico marroquí: Evolución y perspectivas (I)" Consejería de Educación en Marruecos. 2005 (http://www.educacion.gob.es/exterior/ma/es/File/MI%20ARTICULO%20PDF%20OK.pdf)

Western Sahara (Countries or regions where Spanish is spoken without official recognition, or where creoles are spoken of Spanish origin, with or without official recognition.)

It is estimated that between 150,000 and 200,000 Sahrawi have Spanish as a second language: Bahia Mahmud Awah and Conchi Moya "El porvenir del español en el Sahara Occidental" 2009

Thank you. --Adeuagur (talk) 15:09, 17 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If I see it correctly we have a definition problem here: what should the map show? Of course map content differs if I use 3% or offical status or 50%+ as threshold to include a country here as "spanish". There was no definition at all in the initial file version so it is a bit hard here. If I see correctly the text on the file page was also changed every now and then. We need to find (discover in the file history) a clear definition of what the map should show - everything else will lead to editwars on what is "important" and what not.
A last resort would be to create a new file version (different file name) which has a clear definition if there is no proven "correct" definition of what to show here.
Please discuss your view of this case and solution here. Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 04:32, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Dear Saibo, in my opinion, the map can't be reduced to show only the 20 countries that are the core of the Spanish language as well as the Hispanic minority in the United States.
There is a large population in northern Morocco, Western Sahara and the Philippines that use it as a second language.
There are also Spanish-speaking minorities in Switzerland, Canada, Australia, Israel, France, London and some Caribbean states.
In the town of Semporna, Malaysia, Chavacano is one of the official languages, a Spanish-based creole language.
On the other hand, Brazil has entered the Spanish language in its educational system, but I think this country should not appear on the map of Spanish language.
Thank you --Adeuagur (talk) 00:30, 19 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Apparently two groups of people have different opinions of what the map should show. We have a problem here: the map's legend/definition was not present from the beginning - so it is hard to say which one is the "correct" version. Furthermore the definition is not fully clear and sharp.
There are already several other world maps in Category:Linguistic_maps_of_the_Spanish_language - but all seem to have the same problems: no clear definition. With such a thing [:File:Map-Hispano.png|"official language and countries with a significant Spanish-speaking population"] you can interpret (and edit war) about what is "significant"... And in fact several other maps also had upload wars. The Ogre seems to have participated in some and reduced the number of "spanish" countries.
The Ogre, please provide your point of view.
If the editors here cannot come to a consensus this map needs to stay protected with some (to be defined state) and new file with clear definitions of what to show need be created (not that hard). Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 01:26, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Belize and Andorra have more Spanish speakers than is shown, Trinidad and Philippines less. Also, the color for > 25% is virtually indistinguishable from the color for official use. Since I can't correct the map, and this has been going on for years, I'm removing it from English WP. Kwamikagami (talk) 06:11, 22 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ethnologue can be a terrible source in some cases

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I ask the administrators to be careful with some sources. "Ethnologue" only takes into account the mother tongue. Examples: Morocco, Only 80,000 French speakers. (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=MA) Netherlands, What about English in the Netherlands? (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=NL) Mongolia, Only 4,000 Russian speakers. (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=MN) Myanmar, It seems that nobody speaks English in this former British colony (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=MM) --Adeuagur (talk) 00:24, 18 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Globalise

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Template:Globalize/US 119.236.141.26 22:13, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What exactly do you want to say? Cheers --Saibo (Δ) 02:26, 27 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Update

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This file requires updating. Please see the talk page for more information. In doing so, you could add a timestamp to the file.
Please notify the uploader with {{subst:update-note|1=File talk:Map-Hispanophone World 2000.png}} ~~~~

Please add {{SVG|map}} Thanks. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 05:52, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Spanish in Northern Africa

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Strong support for adding Northern Marroco and Western Sahara as "Countries or regions where Spanish is spoken without official recognition, or where creoles of Spanish origin are spoken, with or without official recognition". Mother-tongue does not matter here, the sheer fact that Spanish is widely used as a second language by many inhabitants, even without an official recognition or pressure to do so, suffices especially if you compare the situation with the U.S. and the finely graded categories now used there to specify Spanish-language domination by State.

BTW, Google says there was a special issue on Spanish in Northern Africa of the International Journal of Ibero-American Linguistics: Español-árabe-bereber: actualidad de un antiguo contacto. Special issue on Spanish in Northern Africa. Revista Internacional de Lingüística Iberoamericana, vol. IX (2011), n. 2 (18): 121-141.--Jordi (talk) 10:58, 29 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request: SVG version

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{{Edit request}}

Add 

{{Vector version available |1=Hispanophone global world map language 2.svg}}

. Poppytarts (talk) 14:26, 28 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

✓ Done Awesome! Thank you! Hedwig in Washington (mail?) 23:35, 16 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Edit request: Category

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{{Edit request}} Please add [[Category:2000 maps of the world]]. Thanks in advance. --Enyavar (talk) 19:38, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New Mexico

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Spanish is an official language in New Mexico. Map needs correction. 2601:346:C201:98B0:2C38:4C81:599C:EF9F 18:12, 25 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Questioning Google, it directly tells me that New Mexico has no official language, just that a majority of inhabitants speak the language. So please provide a source, and note that the map is depicting the status in the year 2000 (not earlier or later). --Enyavar (talk) 19:43, 4 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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