File talk:Austin Light Twelve-Six 4-seater tourer 1935 (15228163192).jpg

Hello @Eddaido: , are you really sure that the Newbury tourer body was built by German Ambi-Budd? I know that the Light 12/6's Greyhound and Kempton saloons feature the German "Jupiter" body by Ambi-Budd (as used on the Adler Trumpf). But I don't know any German car model sporting an Ambi-Budd tourer coachwork similar to the Newbury. To be frank, it even looks very "un-German" in style, very "British". I'd never would have thought of the Newbury coachwork as stemming from German Ambi-Budd when I looked at it - both the body style and the fact that the largest German supplier of series-built bodywork would have built this exclusively for Austin without even one German manufacturer as customer would seem to me most unusual...--Purzelbier (talk) 08:00, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Hello @Purzelbier: Ah, if only you'd been around 85 years ago. (As I expect you know) the original image has disappeared from Flickr along with all the other contributions of the same photographer. I have done my best to find confirmation elsewhere but aside from this quote from The Beaulieu Encyclopedia of the Automobile: Coachbuildingbooks.google.co.nz › books Nick Georgano - 2001 "Yet another firm, Vehicle Developments, used German experience – including that of the Ambi-Budd company – to produce a standard, . . . bodies on a wide range of chassis sizes, from Austin 12 to Chrysler, without looking out of place." (and another similar note) I have found nothing specific to the Newbury about who made its body but it does seem highly likely it was Budd. I note that Pressed Steel's sale to British interests was completed in early January, 1936 see Pressed Steel Company Date: Friday, Jan. 10, 1936 Publication: The Times (London, England) Issue: 47268 Eddaido (talk) 08:30, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I know about the Ambi-Budd connection with Vehicle Developments. I call the Beaulieu Encyclopedia my own but there's a bit more info in Nick Walker's "A-Z of British Coachbuilders", which has an own "Allingham" (the independent design studio) section. Vehicle Developments was an enterprise of free-lance designer Henry William Allingham (formerly the "al" of coachbuilder Hoyal; some info on him here: https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Henry_William_Allingham ). According to both books the Ambi-Budd cooperation was for a special standardised pressed-steel door and pillar design for drophead coupés that according to Walker's book was called (by whom? internally by Vehicle Developments?) "Sandringham" and used by coachbuilders Whittingham & Mitchel, Ranalagh and Jones Bros (Vehicle Developments not being a coachbuilder but just a technical development enterprise) for coachwork on Austin, Ford, Morris, Vauxhall and Wolseley models. I admit that I simply don't know how a "Sandringham" drophead of any marque looks like as I never knowingly came across one being called a "Sandringham" - maybe because the term "Sandringham" never was used publicly for the respective cars? maybe just for the licensing of the technical design to the named coachbuilders? I really don't know, so at this point wild speculation on my side...

But as the Austin Newbury body is a tourer and not a drophead coupé/cabriolet I'm sceptical about it being a case of this Ambi-Budd technical input. But anyhow, even if this car IS a specimen of this Vehicle Developments / Ambi-Budd design co-operation - its coachwork surely wasn't manufactured by Ambi-Budd of Berlin but by one of those British coachbuilders that regularly implemented the designs of H.W. Allingham, AFAIK Whittingham & Mitchel being the most prolific. Ambi-Budd surely had only technical input (maybe as a licensor?) in the works of Allingham / Vehicle Developments.

So at the end of the day I think the Ambi-Budd reference should be deleted from the description of this image - more so as Ambi-Budd of Berlin really DID supply German made coachworks for the Austin Light 12/6: the (very "German" looking) 4-door sports saloons Greyhound and Kempton which both sported Ambi-Budd's standardised "Jupiter" body that was prominently used on the front-drive Adler Trumpf of the same period. This act of a major British car-builder receiving German series-built coachwork in the mid-1930s IMHO is indeed something very extraordinary...--Purzelbier (talk) 13:00, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

P.S.: I don't think that there's a historical connection between Ambi-Budd of Berlin (the German Budd licensee) and Pressed Steel's sale in the mid 1930s. AFAIK both enterprises were completely separate entities, just both being Budd licensees. Ambi-Budd was a joint venture of huge German enterprise Ambi (Arthur Müller Bauten und Industriewerke; [1]) and Budd while Pressed Steel started as a joint venture of Morris and Budd. After Arthur Müller's death in 1935, Ambi-Budd was already under massive pressure from the NSDAP-government ("aryanization", production of military vehicles and equipment et.al....)--Purzelbier (talk) 13:10, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Looks as if you've been reading some of what I wrote. I've talked to the owner of GSU664, he says its an Austin body and its aluminium which I agree makes an Ambi-Budd link even less likely. Please sign your contributions to this page. Thanks, Eddaido (talk) 20:11, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for your inquiry at the owner - great work! And thanks for reminding me of signing - I just forgot it completely, apologies. I see you already struck through the reference - thanks. Cheers from Bavaria, --Purzelbier (talk) 20:19, 15 July 2020 (UTC)