File talk:Літары беларускай арабіцы.svg

 

This is a fake!

Version of 10:13, 22 April 2019

The chart[1] pretends to represend the orthography of the Kitabs by Lipka-Tatars. But it doesn't.

• Letter گ گـــ ـــگـــ ـــگ hasn't had any relation to the Kitabs.
• Letter ص صـــ ـــصـــ ـــص has never represented [ts] in the Kitabs.
• Letter ه هـــ ـــهـــ ـــه has ever represented [gh] in the Kitabs: according to Antanovich it might mistakely represent [e] only at the end of words as in Turki or Persian.
• Letter ك كـــ ـــكـــ ـــك has always represented soft [k^j] in the Kitabs.
• Also at least in the Belarusian Kitabs harakat has been widely used. Seveleu-Dubrovnik uses it in the very strange way: mostly like the cyrillic "soft marks"%%%%%
• You can see real materials at https://arabica.fias.fr/ : they differ from Seveleu-Dubrovnik's orthography at the same site!
• See also Антонович А.К. Белорусские тексты, писанные арабским письмом, и их графико-орфографическая система and [2][3][4][5]
• See how Seveleu-Dubrovnik is trying to remove the file talk as 'spam'[6]!!! That's because he has nothing to say in fact. And it is vandalising too becase the file talk is refered in the deletion request, so Seveleu-Dubrovnik is trying to falsify the the deletion request as well

You can also see that this chart is 100% self-advertising:

- https://ar.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D9%83%D8%AA%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%A9_%D8%B9%D8%B1%D8%A8%D9%8A%D8%A9_%D8%A8%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%B3%D9%8A%D8%A9&diff=34897818&oldid=33159593 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- https://be.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%96_%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%96_%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%96%D1%82&diff=3364146&oldid=2388450 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- https://be-tarask.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%96_%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%96_%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%8D%D1%82&diff=2056396&oldid=2022717 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- https://de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wei%C3%9Frussisches_arabisches_Alphabet&diff=188241969&oldid=182104879 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Belarusian_Arabic_alphabet&diff=894975741&oldid=893090948 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- https://it.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alfabeto_arabo_bielorusso&diff=104674474&oldid=104357834 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- https://mk.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B0&diff=3844336&oldid=3208714 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- https://pl.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Alfabet_bia%C5%82oruski_(arabski)&diff=56601787&oldid=56245936 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- https://ru.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%91%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%84%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82&diff=99525117&oldid=99121163 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- https://uk.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D0%91%D1%96%D0%BB%D0%BE%D1%80%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%81%D1%8C%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%B0%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0&diff=25076022&oldid=21446095 by Seveleu-Dubrovnik

- note: no https://fr.wikipedia.org -- Seveleu-Dubrovnik claims that he is a Parisian[7][8][9] BTW At the address of the FIAS "16—20 rue des Cinq-Diamants 75230, Paris, France" google-maps show an ordinary building[10] and DIFFERENT CODE

Versions of 18:35, 13 September 2020

Note that Seveleu-Dubrovnik has changed[11] the chart but wiki shows the newest version instead of edition actual one. The chart[12] still has mistakes (e.g. <<Letter ص صـــ ـــصـــ ـــص has never represented [ts] in the Kitabs.>>) and it is obviously not the orthography of the Kitabs (e.g. maybe because of some ideological reasons Seveleu-Dubrovnik doesn't use diacritics or use it very strictly while it is widely used in the Kitabs... او makes nonsense because of lack of diacritics, you can compare with a real example from his own site[13]). And you can see that it now miscorresponds to itself: at "Belarusian Arabic alphabet" section "sad" is described as [ts](which is wrong), and "sad with three dots below" as [ts'](which doesn't correspond to wiki but in fact could be found in the Kitabs); but in the logo Seveleu-Dubrovnik uses "sad" as [s] and "sad with three dots below" as [ts]!!! (Yes, this is correct))))))

Version of 02:25, 20 September 2020

The most obvious issues mentioned above are fixed but the chart[14] is still an "amateurish mess"(tm)(Note that the term Taraškievica and the text in Taraškievica were correct....). E.g. <<maybe because of some ideological reasons Seveleu-Dubrovnik doesn't use diacritics or use it very strictly while it is widely used in the Kitabs... او makes nonsense because of lack of diacritics, you can compare with a real example from his own site[15]>>

Other issues

Nobody knows what the legal status of that "Federetive Institute" is(e.g. there are neither direct links nor google-search information about their "Funding Partners"), and what the mystic "fondation RFEAI"[16] that doesn't allow our poor Seveleu-Dubrovnik to write in the orthography of the Kitabs but forces him to spread disinformation among wikis is... (e.g. you can see here[17] how that chart leads to misunderstanding of Belarusian phonetics because it mixes Arab, Persian an Belarusian ones but has the name "Letters of the Belarusian Arabic alphabet"!!!)

<<- note: no https://fr.wikipedia.org -- Seveleu-Dubrovnik claims that he is a Parisian[18][19][20] BTW At the address of the FIAS "16—20 rue des Cinq-Diamants 75230, Paris, France" google-maps show an ordinary building[21] and DIFFERENT CODE >>

A formal issue: Seveleu-Dubrovnik states that the chart is his "own work" but the metioned above document claims the following: "Réalisation: Fatma Taibianpour, PhD (contenus textuels); Xavier de Villières (design graphique)", and "Réalisation: Maxime Seveleu-Dubrovnik["PhD" is missed...] (contenus textuels); Xavier de Villières (design graphique)" about the first and the second logo respectively. So according to the document the chart containing the logo is not Seveleu-Dubrovnik's "own work"! BTW I have not found any information about Fatma Taibianpour and Xavier de Villières...

You can clearly see here <<<ارابیصایْ>>>(арабіСай) that this Seveleu-Dubrovnik's misorthography is systematical falsifying of Belarusian orthography. You can see number of google-search results of his арабіСа[22] including Omniglot[23]! See also Seveleu-Dubrovnik's letter below[24]

<<See how Seveleu-Dubrovnik is trying to remove the file talk as 'spam'[25]!!! That's because he has nothing to say in fact. And it is vandalising too becase the file talk is refered in the deletion request, so Seveleu-Dubrovnik is trying to falsify the the deletion request as well>>

See how Seveleu-Dubrovnik is lying here[26] about not using letter "sad" as [ts]!!! ("Написання «ارابيصا» зневажає графічну традицію білоруських текстів, писаних арабським листом. Але на сайтах [27], [28] це написання не використовується." vs https://arabica.fias.fr/assets/docs/EIK79-EE4.pdf )

In any case it is now not very bad as an amatourish imitation(!) of Belarusian arabic. So it might be good at a personal site clearly stating that it is not the original texts, but definitely not in the wiki-article as a "scientific" resource

BTW He is imitating Ukrainian there[29]..... ("Прошу мене вибачити за приблизну українську.")

See also the removed editions: [30]

Just for fun[31][32][33][34]

Antanovič's quotes

• <<Мягкий звук /s'/ обозначается буквой ث и /реже/ س.........>> <<буквой же обозначается как твердый, так и мягкий звук /c/>> стр. 76 (in a particular kitab)
• <<твердый звук /s/, как и во всех рукописях, обозначается буквой ص>> -- стр. 76
• <<Буква ه употребляется во всех без исключения изучаемых нами белорусских текстах 17-20 в. для обозначения задненебного фрикативного звука /h/. Взрывной же звук /g/ обозначается буквой غ.>> стр. 204
• <<В изучаемых нами белорусских текстах 17-20 в. звук /е/ последовательно обозначался фатхой. Исключение из этого правила -- чрезвычайно редкое явление.>> стр. 277
• <<Как в употреблении буквы ك для обозначения мягкого звука /к'/ перед /і/, так и буквы ق для обозначения твердого звука /к/ в других положениях /не перед /і/ во всех белоруских текстах 17-20 в. наблюдается полная последовательность.>> стр. 237
• <<в белоруских текстах, писанных арабским письмом, для обозначения удвоения /долготы/ согласных употребляется надстрочный знак шадда ـّ.>> стр. 268
• <<во всех известных нам белорусских и польских текстах 17-20 в., написанных арабским письмом, имеются тщательные огласовки>> стр. 277
• see also "Таблица №1 Употребление согласних букв" стр. 192, "Таблица №2 Способы обозначения гласных звуков" стр. 194

PS

• be:Антон Канстанцінавіч Антановіч
• https://arabica.fias.fr/pages/antanovi%C4%8D-en

FIAS vs FIAS/RFEAI vs RFIEA

Dear Seveleu-Dubrovnik!

Could you explain us what the difference between "Federative Institute for Advanced Study"(FIAS)[35] and French Institutes for Advanced Study(FIAS)[36][37] is? Also what is the difference between Foundation RFEAI[38] and Foundation RFIEA[39][40]?


Sincerely yours,
195.114.147.75 18:34, 18 September 2020 (UTC)

On Monday, August 31, 2020, 11:51:34 PM GMT+3, <seveleu.dubrovnik@fias.fr> wrote:

Dear Marat,

Thank you for your interest in this project.

1) You might have misunderstood its purposes or the terminology : the project tries to formalize a graphic system, i.e. a correspondence between the primary linearized phonematic form of a word and the sequence of (Arabic) letters it's being represented with. Taraškievica is another graphic system, i.e. a correspondence between the primary linearized phonematic form of a Belarusan word and the sequence of (Cyrillic) letters. As long as two letter sequences, one in Arabic, another in Cyrillic are produced from the same sequence of phonemes (a valid Belarusan word), they depict that same word. Those protocols are different in how they encode the secondary articulation "palatalization": Cyrillic uses the combining strategy of encoding the secondary articulation "palatalization", while Arabic and Latin scripts use the sequential strategy of encoding the secondary articulation "palatalization". Because they use different strategies, there is no way one could find a one-to-one correspondence between renderings of the Belarusian language in those two alphabets.

Your proposal is not very detailed but it clearly disregards the stable manuscript practices. Please refer to the fundamental work of Antanovič mentioned on the site. Also, you do not clearly distinguish syllabic and non-syllabic versions of consonants while they should differ.

2) As explained in 1), there exist no transliteration table "Cyrillic script ←→ Arabic script". There exist tables of correspondence "Cyrillic script ←→Linearized Phonematic space" and "Arabic script ←→Linearized Phonematic space". You will find the latter in the mentioned Antanovič's book. Even this correspondence is not automatic, but provides different lettering conditioned on whether the phonemes is stressed / unstresses or whether it is pausal or not.

I am looking at the edit history of this Wikipedia article and am making a constatation that it has been randomly edited many times with no systematic idea behind. Please don't rely on that table, it is a product of chance and irresponsible changes. The logo of the site has been produced in presumtion that the syllabic palatalization will be systematically encoded as a short "i" sound. This approach is relevant because, articulatorily, this type of secondary articulation corresponds to a short "i"-shaped overtone (the exact linguistic term used in Russian literature is "«и»-образный придаточек") while the Arabic protocol has a sign for a short "i" sign and there is no other Belarusian phoneme pretending to that sign. That is, by the way, the same orthographic phoneme ("i") with no phonetic value that the Belarusian Latin script uses to express the palatalization.

3) Thank you for this idea ! Would you like to help FIAS with translating the already published articles from Belarusian / Russian / English / maybe Polish into Arabic (given your literacy in MSA) ?

Best regards, Maxime Seveleu-Dubrovnik