Category talk:Mountain passes in the Alps in Austria

what is the reason that not all alpine passes in Austria (category & images as well) have been moved to this category, but are kept in parent Category:Mountain passes of Austria? --Herzi Pinki (talk) 20:15, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Excuse my bad english. All passes in Austria aren't in Alps. In Austria there is also Carpathes. Ludo (talk) 21:19, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Salue Ludo, excuse mon français, svp. Tu es vrai, mais ces cols ne sont pas dans les Carpates. En Autriche, il n'y a pas de cols dans les Carpates (je ne connais pas un, et je suis de Vienne), mais à la messe de Bohème en Haute-Autriche et Basse-Autriche, il ya peu.

Je préférai une séparation très claire entre la structure politique (que peut traversé les limites régional, pour exemple le canton Vaud, composé de les Alpes et de Jura) et la structure régionale (que peut traversé les limites administrative, comme les Alpes). Category:Mountain passes of Austria vs. Category:Alpine passes, ou Category:Mountain passes in the Alps, si veux. Maintenant, nous avons une situation très asymétrique. La structure des catégories des cols alpine n'est pas claire. Je croix, que cette chose, vos modifications d'aujourd'hui, est une de les raisons très profonde pour cette catégorisation incorrecte. Pourquoi il y a Category:Mountain passes in the canton of Graubünden, et au lieu de cela, il n'y a pas Category:Alpine passes in the canton of Graubünden (toutes les cols dans Grisons sont dans les Alpes)? Pourquoi nous devons catégorisée un col dans le canton (si le canton est complétement dans les Alpes), un autre dans le catégorie parent Category:Alpine passes, p.e. Category:Col du Pillon. Une catégorisation dans la région montagneux (les Alpes, les Pyrénées, etc.) et une autre dans la structure administrative (un état, un canton, etc.) est plus simple. Ne sont pas trop grande nombre des cols alpine, que nous ne pouvons pas mettre toutes dans une catégorie. Avec la structure actuelle, est plus difficile du trouvé und col dans cette arbre des catégories. Uff, je n'ai pas écrit un texte long français comme ça pour les 20 ans. bon nuit --Herzi Pinki (talk) 01:22, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

Merci pour cet effort en français.

Oui. All passess in Grisons (Graubünden) are in Alps, as Vorarlberg. So I've insert passes in Graubünden into swiss alps passes. I don't make that for Vaud or Bern because cantons are on two moutains (Alps, Jura). I thank that I could create Category:Alpine passes in the canton of Vaud and Category:Jura passes in the canton of Vaud.

But, as you write, I think you want to have two categorisation :

• one on countries and admnistration subdivions.
• one with natural subdivion : Jura, Alps.

But I think Alps are to big. So we must create subcategory under Alps : We can use that : de:Liste der Gebirgsgruppen in den Ostalpen (nach AVE)

Ludo (talk) 13:51, 5 January 2011 (UTC)

merci beaucoup pour répondre en Anglais. :-) Excuse moi que je continu aussi en Anglais.

Currently there are less than 300 alpine passes having their own category. Not that much and not far away from the threshold of 200. No need to separate, as you still can find the passes through parallel structure of administrative categories. Using any subdivision of the alps is problematic, as there is not one and none is settled all over the alps, de Nice a Vienne. Furthermore, passes tend to use the natural separation lines between mountain ranges. So each pass is likely to be again in two of these subdivisions. (and there are already thematic categories for mountain ranges, e.g. Category:Hohe Tauern, where passes together with mountains, ski resorts, etc could be added.) However, it would make sense to differ between alpine passes crossed by roads (or rails, or tunnels) and all the others (The vast majority is still missing, but we will not get all of them. Never.) crossed only by footpaths. so this will give Category:Mountain passes (unchanged definition) ⊃ Category:Mountain passes by mountain range (unchanged definition) ⊃ Category:Alpine passes with the following two children Category:Alpine passes with traffic route and Category:Alpine passes without traffic route (not quite satisfied with names). What do you think?

Consider again the following argument: If I look for Category:Col du Lautaret or Category:Col de Vars here from the other end of the Alps, I might have no idea in which administrative subcategory to search. From your point of view the same argument applies for e.g. Category:Hafnerberg. But we both know that these passes are inside the alps.

On the other hand, categories make most sense when we have articles in the WPs that might want to link to that categories. We will have articles for administrative units, mountain ranges, etc. To have an article where it makes sense to link to Category:Mountain passes in the canton Berne or Category:Alpine passes in the canton Berne is quite unlikely.

For similar categories like Category:Jura mountain passes such a separation is not necessary (not enough subcategories). Category:Mountain passes by country with all administrative subdivisions will be kept in parallel and unchanged. kind regards, --Herzi Pinki (talk) 16:13, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

So, you propose to put all Alpine passes into two categories :

• Category:Alpine passes with traffic route
• Category:Alpine passes without traffic route

And we keep a categorisation with administrative limits

Two categorization will be independant ? It's ok ? Ludo (talk) 22:02, 7 January 2011 (UTC)

Magnifique! Understood. I will add some description to the categories and well, let's wait a bit and see. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 00:38, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Salue Ludo, can you have a look at my category definition proposal at Category:Alpine_passes_with_traffic_route, svp. merci. --Herzi Pinki (talk) 01:23, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Salut,

The definition is ok for me.

Yesterday evening I became with the canton of Valais (with or without tarfic route). I'll continue (progressive) canton by canton, country by country. When it's ok, I'll say you. Ludo (talk) 08:40, 8 January 2011 (UTC)