Commons:Batch uploading/Illustrations of Vietnamese cash coins from Ed Toda's "Annam and its minor currency".
Illustrations of Vietnamese cash coins from Ed Toda's "Annam and its minor currency".[edit]
I would like to request these bots to fetch all images and their related text from Ed Toda’s Annam and its minor currency, I really would like to do this myself only I have very little experience uploading files from public domain, and I have extremely little free time at hand and the images almost number in 300. 😅 Now I really wouldn't request this here if I thought that I had many other options so here it goes...
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱.
I plan on using all of these in the Wikipedia article “Vietnamese cash”, so I do have an immediate usage for them. I hope that these ideas 💡 are plausible. 🙇🏻
- Source to upload from:
Ed. Toda.’s Annam and its minor currency hosted on Art-Hanoi, a website operated by Sema (known on Wikipedia as @Pyvanet~commonswiki: ).
- Do the media URLs follow a pattern?
11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21(, and technically ALL coins here).
Do not copy after 21 as page 22 is originally created by Sema himself, though Sema did create the Wikipedia article I wish to add these to, and he did wish to upload them himself he eventually gave up on doing it as too many of his files of more recent South-Vietnamese banknotes got deleted, I would request these separately from him but a ticket 🎟 would have to be fetched, and it should be more clearly discriminated as more recent currencies may violate Vietnamese copyright ©.
- Does the site have an API?
Not that I’m aware of.
- What else could ease uploading? (is the site valid XHTML, do they use a WCM…?)
- Did you contact the site owner?
Yes, I did though the other images would have to be uploaded by himself, these however are the images of Ed. Toda and are mere scans thus do not go over the threshold of originality, and are in public domain.
Note 📝: The owner really does want his content here but quit here after some of his images got deleted due to Vietnamese copyright © laws.
For context: this page describes the scans in detail and is entitled “Read this first”.
- Describe the works to be uploaded in detail (audio files, images by …):
The files are all images (scans) from Eduardo Toda’s 1882 book 📚 “Annam and its minor currency”, the authoritive English-language “classic” on Vietnamese cash coins prior to its publication going in full detail on the history, and circumstances (both economically wth resource management as well cultural with various “religious” (read: Superstitious) reasoning behind the content of the alloys), the descriptions of the coins should also be uploaded (further below), all of these files are hand-drawn Vietnamese (Annamese/Annamite) cash coins, though they are somewhat factually inaccurate due to them only following a single Chinese calligraphic style. They are all images from the same book and number exactly at --- images.
How the files should be organised:
The files themselves should all be named “Toda Nr.[number]” and then if possible their inscription in Chinese characters. The description below the files could be like exempli gratia title = “Toda No. 1. 太平興寶“ description is “Quote: “ (Barker: 1.6-1.16) Obverse: 太平興寶 Thai-binh-hung-bao. Reverse: The character 丁 Dinh, the name of the Dynasty.” - Ed Toda, Annam and its minor currency, 1882” Maybe again with a link 🔗 to the appropriate page. It should copy all the text until the next image, it should not any text before that chapter’s first image. Even long text should be copied as these illustrations mostly rely on their context.
With “the appropriate page” I mean that if it were ploaded from “http://art-hanoi.com/toda/15.html” then that specific link 🔗 should be listed as “the source”.
Where white-spaces exist between paragraphs “
” could (or should) be added.
The files should be made in a new category called “Category:Illustrations from Annam and its minor currency by Ed Toda” which in itself falls under “Category:Coins of Vietnam”, and “Category:Eduard Toda”.
- Which license tag(s) should be applied?
The license that should be applied is “
|
The author died in 1941, so this work is in the public domain in its country of origin and other countries and areas where the copyright term is the author's life plus 80 years or fewer. This work is in the public domain in the United States because it was published (or registered with the U.S. Copyright Office) before January 1, 1929. |
| This file has been identified as being free of known restrictions under copyright law, including all related and neighboring rights. | |
” as the book was published in Shanghai (though the writer is Hispanic ABD/and if it were published in Spain the copyright © would still be valid until 2022, but it completely falls outside of this in both Chinese, and U.S. American law).
Each file should contain at the author “Eduardo Toda y Güell (though Dr. R. Allan Barker, “the Qui-Gon Jinn of Vietnamese cash coins” hypothesises that Toda’s wife drew them)” (I put a part in there as I'm a joker 🃏), or on a more serious note “Eduardo Toda y Güell (though Dr. R. Allan Barker hypothesises that Toda’s wife drew them)” as the authorship isn't 100% known, while the source should list their appropriate page at “Art-Hanoi” a website operated by Sema (known on Wikipedia as @Pyvanet~commonswiki: ) for appropriate attribution.
- Is there a template that could be used on the file description pages? Do you think a special template should be created?
"Template:PD-scan"
Donald Trung (talk) 13:17, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
How and where I would use these images on Wikipedia[edit]
For how I would use these images please see w:nl:Gebruiker:Donald Trung/Lijst van Vietnamese kèpèngs (geïdentificeerde munten) where I plan on adding an illustration next to the mentioned coin where applicable, and users can see more information ℹ on the coins by clicking on the images, and next to the Toda illustrations I would add an actual photograph of the coin (if they are available on Wikimedia Commons, which most unfortunately aren't). --Donald Trung (Talk 💬) ("The Chinese Coin Troll" 👿) (Articles 📚) 11:32, 27 November 2017 (UTC)
Why this book (and its illustrations) are (still) important[edit]
The text itself is public domain and according to the Numismatic Bibliomania Society this book is still considered to be the main English language reference when dealing with Vietnamese cash coins.
“The E-Sylum: Volume 9, Number 47, November 19, 2006, Article 13. ONLINE BOOK: ANNAM AND ITS MINOR CURRENCY BY ED. TODA”
“Regarding last week's featured website (art-hanoi.com/collection), Dave Kellogg writes: "I know of a related website that I could not reach through the link above. It is an on-line copy of Ed Toda's book (1882) on ancient Annamese (Vietnamese) cash coins. It contains an interesting coin identifier feature which is a huge help for those of us who are marginally illiterate with Chinese characters. Here it is: coin identifier"
This book 📖 is still used a lot for novice Annamese (Vietnamese) cash coin collectors. The webite where I want to upload these images from operated by Sema (or Pyvanet~commonswiki) is the only online host I could find for this book 📖, of someone wants to know the coding of the website I’m sure that they could ask him. My experiences with him have been positive so far so I think that if the batch scripter wants the necessary code to script on then they could easily ask Sema.
“[The book is titled ANNAM AND ITS MINOR CURRENCY. From the web page: "This book written over 100 years ago still remains the main reference for all collectors of Vietnamese cash coins." -Editor]”
Annam and its minor currency 💲 has been used as the main English language reference for over a century, and I’m sure that these illustrations will be very useful for this subject. Even if the images won't immediately be used on Wikipedia it would still be of great educational value for Wikimedia Commons to host them.
“Dave adds: "That web page statement, "remains the main reference", is a bit of an exaggeration. That would have been true a couple of years ago if it said, "in English". There are some French references with an excellent reputation. Then, in 2004 Barker published Part 1 of what will undoubtedly become the definitive English reference. Nevertheless, Toda's on-line copy is still really helpful, and readers should know of it. Perhaps, it is still the main reference in that more people have access to it."
- © Wayne Homren, Editor”
So this book 📖 is no longer the main English language reference, but unlike Barker’s this is in public domain. There are indeed a lot of French language books 📚 that are superior to Toda’s Annam and its minor currency, however I do not have any (online) access to those, nor do I know which one of those are in the public domain. --Donald Trung (Talk 💬) ("The Chinese Coin Troll" 👿) (Articles 📚) 09:42, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
Examples[edit]
An example of all coins from the first page would be like this:
Toda No. 1 太平興寶
| Description |
English: No. 1. (Barker: 1.6-1.16)
Obverse: 太平興寶 Thai-binh-hung-bao. Reverse: The character 丁 Dinh, the name of the Dynasty. |
| Date | |
| Source | Annam and its minor currency (Art-Hanoi) |
| Author | Eduardo Toda y Güell |
Toda No. 2 太平興寶
| Description |
English: No. 2. (Barker: 1.17-1.19)
Obverse: same as before. Reverse: plain. Coins made by the king 先皇 TIEN-HOANG. White copper. Note: Though the reign title was 太平, all coins actually bear the legend 大平興寶 instead of 太平興寶 as it was stated in the original Toda's book. The former 黎 Le Dynasty. - 981-1010. General LE-HOAN ascended the throne under the name of 天福 THIEN-PHUOC, and, following the policy initiated by his predecessor, secured peace on the frontiers by successful wars against China and Ciampa. His son and successor, called LONG-VIET, was murdered by his brother 臥朝 NGOA-TRIEU, three days after he had come to power. This prince, whose conduct was extremely cruel and bad, soon afterwards proclaimed himself king and committed every kind of excess and crime, inventing new tortures and ruining the country in every way. With his death the LE Dynasty came to an end. |
| Date | |
| Source | Annam and its minor currency (Art-Hanoi) |
| Author | Eduardo Toda y Güell |
Toda No. 3 天福鎮寶
| Description |
English: No. 3. (Barker: 2.1-2.7)
Obverse: 天福鎮寶 Thien-phuc-tran-bao, or provincial coin of Thien-phuoc. At that time, as some fifty years before in China, the provinces of Annam were called 鎮 TRAN. Reverse: The character 黎 LE, the name of the Dynasty. |
| Date | |
| Source | Annam and its minor currency (Art-Hanoi) |
| Author | Eduardo Toda y Güell |
Toda No. 4 黎
| Description |
English: No. 4. (Barker: none)
Obverse: Only the character 黎 LE in the lower part of the square hole. Reverse: plain. The above two coins were cast in the 5th moon of the 5th year of 大行 DAI-HANH (986). They were made principally of white copper, and are rather smaller than the ordinary Chinese cash. |
| Date | |
| Source | Annam and its minor currency (Art-Hanoi) |
| Author | Eduardo Toda y Güell |
I hope that these examples are clear enough for any potential scripters, if asked I will try to make them more “upload-friendly”. 
😉.
Sent 📩 from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱. --Donald Trung (Talk 💬) ("The Chinese Coin Troll" 👿) (Articles 📚) 09:42, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
- In case any scripter thinks that importing the text is too difficult they could just import the images and the titles could just be "Toda No. [X]" and I will manually request these images to be renamed and I will manually add the descriptions and organise these images per dynasty. The scripter would only have to create Category:Illustrations from Annam and its minor currency and I will manually add sub categories based on dynasties and chapters. I have no issue with organising, I just can't import these images via my cell.-phone without manually having to download every individual picture and then manually uploading them one for one. --Donald Trung (Talk 💬) ("The Chinese Coin Troll" 👿) (Articles 📚) 10:00, 15 December 2017 (UTC)
An alternative proposal[edit]
If the request is too difficult any scripter can upload the images like the following:
Toda No. 1
| Description |
English: Illustration from Annam and its minor currency. |
| Date | |
| Source | Annam and its minor currency (Art-Hanoi) |
| Author | Eduardo Toda y Güell |
|
|
The author died in 1941, so this work is in the public domain in its country of origin and other countries and areas where the copyright term is the author's life plus 80 years or fewer. This work is in the public domain in the United States because it was published (or registered with the U.S. Copyright Office) before January 1, 1929. |
| This file has been identified as being free of known restrictions under copyright law, including all related and neighboring rights. | |
Category:Illustrations from Annam and its minor currency
I will then manually add more informative descriptions, and will create subcategories such as Category:Illustrations from Annam and its minor currency (Ðinh Dynasty) to Category:Illustrations from Annam and its minor currency (Nguyễn Dynasty). Just make the code as easy as possible, and I'll do the rest of the work, my only issue here is that I don’t have a desktop computer 🖥 so I can’t run the script myself.
Sent from my Microsoft Lumia 950 XL with Microsoft Windows 10 Mobile 📱. --Donald Trung (Talk 💬) ("The Chinese Coin Troll" 👿) (Articles 📚) 12:51, 17 December 2017 (UTC)
Opinions[edit]
| Assigned to | Progress | Bot name | Category |
|---|---|---|---|
| Donald Trung | Complete | Illustrations from Annam and its minor currency by Eduardo Toda y Güell and its sub-categories. |
I have begun to manually upload the files 📁 from this request as I have begun organising all images of Vietnamese cash coins on Wikimedia Commons and wish to have this book 📖 from 1882 serve as a reference for the list as this has been the definitive source for non-Vietnamese, non-Chinese, and non-French numismatists of Vietnamese cash coins until 2010 (and largely still serves as such in the minds of many), I will archive this request once I am done, but I have put a goal of trying to do around a chapter a day, but due to real-life responsibilities on the Outernet (or however the "not internet" is called) I will not be able to do this as quickly as I had hoped 🤞🏻. --Donald Trung 『徵國單』 (Talk 💬) (WikiProject Numismatics 💴) (Articles 📚) 11:18, 25 February 2018 (UTC)
